Topic: U.S. Election Thread 2016

[ober]

I'm curious too. I know she isn't perfect and people love to hate her but she is easily the most qualified in terms of political experience. And who doesn't want her husband as the First Man?

[Mike]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0YIJQ1jgEI

[ober]

I'm finally starting to see an increase in opposition to Trump. And by that I mean the number of DoD people speaking out against his insanity as well as some other congressmen.

I really think he is playing is all for fools and he is just trying to destroy the GOP. And it is working. We are going to have a democrat again for the next 4 years because the GOP can't get their shit together. Not that I'm sad about this

[Jake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0YIJQ1jgEI

notice, that in my post I said "I also find it hard to believe that the democrats are happy that Hillary will be the nominee" - so the comment was about democrats, not my personal views. The reason I think that way, is compared to Sanders Hillary is almost a conservative! but definitely middle of the road. I'm surprised that more democrats are not rallying behind Sanders, after all, he exhumes and stands behind many ideals that are at the core of the left.

Personally, I think that with either Bernie or Trump as the president, the country would spin out of control. The ideological divisions are two deep and both of them come from the extremes of their party and as such would never garnish ANY support or respect from the other side and these divisions could lead us into a dark future.

[Jake]

What makes you feel like the country is in control now? 

Unfortunately I have a pretty pessimistic view of our country and the world as a whole and even though I think that the USA is still more stable than the majority of the world, we [the world] are teetering on the brink of disaster. If either Sanders or Trump become president, the scales will not only tip but tumble. Also, I don't think this is much different than at any other point in our history...it takes a very skilled few to keep societies peaceful...the only difference now is that the stakes are much higher.

[ober]

Man I love people that feel like we're on the 'brink of disaster'.  It makes me think of all the people that told me as a child that Jesus was coming back 'any day'. 

What 'disaster' path are we on? 

1) We've already survived a pretty catastrophic economic disaster world-wide in the past decade.  The financial systems are a mess for sure, but I don't think it is something that cannot be overcome.
2) The current state of war in general is pretty much status quo, and some would argue the world is more peaceful than at many other points in the past.
3) Technology is making things like feeding the world a problem of the past (not that it will ever be perfect, but I don't recall the last time I heard concerns about 'how we are going to feed 9 billion people').
4) Climate change is climate change... no single leader is going to change that.

So what else keeps you up at night?  The dirty democrats that feed your children the dreaded 'common core' (which is just a complete misunderstanding of the concept)?  The 'morally corrupt' politicians that want to continue allowing abortions and gay marriage (oh yes... let's put more church stuff in our laws)?

I'm genuinely curious.  Maybe you need to spend more time reading some positive material than dwelling on the negative.  I think we all could use a little more of that.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick here... I just hate statements like that.

[hans]

I don't believe the office of the president is as powerful as many people think it is. As we've seen in the last several years it's quite clear that the rest of the government is capable of stalling pretty much any agenda they feel like. My hunch is that regardless of who is elected we're pretty much in for another 4 years of nothing.

On a side note, I really don't want to vote this year. I don't see any candidate that would actually make a good president.

[Jake]

As for Axon, your belief that Sanders will cause the country to tumble is only based on intuition

He will not cause it, but has the potential to be the catalyst. People that strongly oppose his ideology will cause it. Same goes for Trump.

Ethic, you are not interpreting my posts correctly - I am saying that neither Sanders or Trump would work for us - you seem to concentrate on me attacking sanders alone.

[Jake]

Man I love people that feel like we're on the 'brink of disaster'.  It makes me think of all the people that told me as a child that Jesus was coming back 'any day'. 

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick here... I just hate statements like that.

I will only take the bait a little ober - but your views of the world are sheltered to your immediate environment (being North America). When I say we are nearing disaster I am looking at the recent events in eastern and western europe, the middle east, continued disasters in Africa, etc etc. And like I said, I think we (the USA) is more stable than most! So, please, do not misinterpret my words.

3) Technology is making things like feeding the world a problem of the past (not that it will ever be perfect, but I don't recall the last time I heard concerns about 'how we are going to feed 9 billion people').

this should be a topic of its own.

So what else keeps you up at night?  The dirty democrats that feed your children the dreaded 'common core' (which is just a complete misunderstanding of the concept)?  The 'morally corrupt' politicians that want to continue allowing abortions and gay marriage (oh yes... let's put more church stuff in our laws)?

that is not fair, Ober, and yes, you are being a dick.

[ober]

that is not fair, Ober, and yes, you are being a dick.

Fair enough and I apologize.  I was in a bad mood earlier.  But you didn't answer my question.

Yes, there is unrest in the middle east and other regions.  But tell me how that is different from the war in X that happened Y years ago?  If it was 1941 and Hitler was killing a single race by the millions we would have something to talk about.  The things going on today are disturbing but a far cry from that reality.

And I'm not trying to downplay the shit going on with ISIS or in Syria or Africa or whatever.  I just don't have a 'dooms day' attitude about it.  And if you want to call me sheltered or that I have a warped view of the world, go for it.  But that's your opinion.

And the things I listed in my 'keeping you up at night' bit wasn't necessarily targeted at you.  Those are things I hear coming from the right wing folks and I was just trying to get you to elaborate on your point.  Sorry if I was over the line.

[Jake]

Maybe he'll lead to more stability. Even if all Sanders does is acknowledge these issues, that's still far more than any other candidate is doing.

I think that for the most part a vast majority of American's are middle of the road folks who desire many of the same things: safety, a pretty comfortable life for all, good and inexpensive education, great healthcare, freedom - I know I do, and am pretty sure all of you do as well. However, there are minorities on either side of the spectrum that garner a lot of attention because of the noise they make, overshadowing the majority. And you can't help but blame the media for this - but then again, the media would probably not produce things people do not want to watch.

Ober mentioned gay marriage and abortions, I really think those types of social issues are issues of the past that the same majority from above are pretty indifferent about and there is a general acceptance of them. And again, it is the polarized extremes that still want to make these issues hot and relevant. they are not.

I don't know what I'm trying to say here, but I think what we need is a more centrist leader - and at this time Hillary might be it. But I am with tgm, it will be hard for me to vote this season. 

[ober]

Ober mentioned gay marriage and abortions, I really think those types of social issues are issues of the past that the same majority from above are pretty indifferent about and there is a general acceptance of them. And again, it is the polarized extremes that still want to make these issues hot and relevant. they are not.

While you and I think that, I would never go as far as to say these are issues of the past.  Abortion laws are currently up for debate in a lot of places and there was just a Supreme Court ruling on it very recently.  And gay marriage couldn't be more of a current issue for a lot of the nation.  Are we even 6 months from the story of that lady in the courts in Kentucky that wouldn't sign the licenses?  Do you have any idea how many supporters she had?

I wish they were issues of the past.  I just don't think most people can get past them.  And it's unfortunate.

[Jake]

But tell me how that is different from the war in X that happened Y years ago?

it is not any different and I said as much in my post

Also, I don't think this is much different than at any other point in our history...it takes a very skilled few to keep societies peaceful...the only difference now is that the stakes are much higher.

If it was 1941 and Hitler was killing a single race by the millions we would have something to talk about.

I think we should talk about it now and forever to prevent such tragedies from happening at all. As a side note, and I know you know this, but Hitler did not kill a single race - 500 thousand gypsies and almost 6 million Poles died in World War 2 - among other nations.

[Jake]

Ober mentioned gay marriage and abortions, I really think those types of social issues are issues of the past that the same majority from above are pretty indifferent about and there is a general acceptance of them. And again, it is the polarized extremes that still want to make these issues hot and relevant. they are not.

While you and I think that, I would never go as far as to say these are issues of the past.  Abortion laws are currently up for debate in a lot of places and there was just a Supreme Court ruling on it very recently.  And gay marriage couldn't be more of a current issue for a lot of the nation.  Are we even 6 months from the story of that lady in the courts in Kentucky that wouldn't sign the licenses?  Do you have any idea how many supporters she had?

I wish they were issues of the past.  I just don't think most people can get past them.  And it's unfortunate.

we hear about these issues because there are instigators that want to make them relevant. These instigators have the gift of gab (again, on both sides) and easily persuade people to their way of thinking. If these instigators were not around, people would not care one way or another.

[ober]

But you said specifically 'the stakes are much higher now'.  That's the part I don't agree with.

And yes, I know many others were killed in that war, but you got my point.