Poll

Vote for your preferred candidate(s) for U.S. President

Donald Trump (R)
0 (0%)
Joe Biden (D)
3 (60%)
Jo Jorgensen (L)
2 (40%)
Howie Hawkins (G)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 5

Voting closed: November 03, 2020, 02:48:43 PM

Author Topic: Election 2020  (Read 54918 times)

charlie

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #225 on: August 11, 2020, 06:18:46 PM »
Neither. VP picks rarely move the needle much and this was a relatively bland pick anyway. I liked Harris more than most of the potential candidates so I'm fine with it. I guess the biggest news is that it gives her a leg up for 2024 or 2028.

ober

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #226 on: August 12, 2020, 11:16:49 AM »
I'm ok with it.  I don't think it helps or hurts much.  I wish he had picked Duckworth, personally.

Jake

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #227 on: August 18, 2020, 01:24:31 AM »
Gutsy! Good for her and her message is spot on

https://youtu.be/VoEuCOfjTYQ
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Perspective

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #228 on: August 18, 2020, 08:21:08 AM »
I think she does a great job of showing the problems Baltimore has, but she doesn't say anything about how she'd make it better... what is her platform? Why will voting for her change anything?

ober

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #229 on: August 18, 2020, 11:34:09 AM »
She doesn't say what she would do and twists the 'defund the police' idea into something it isn't.  I guess my biggest problem is that corrupt people run things in both parties.  Putting a republican in control doesn't automatically make things better.  All she said was 'they don't care about black people and they will defund the police and they have been in power too long'.  She didn't say what policies are failing or what they're doing wrong.  That's what I hate about these broad strokes of 'the democrats failed us'.  HOW!??  You can't just say shit and not provide concrete evidence or details.

charlie

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #230 on: August 18, 2020, 05:53:07 PM »
I mean... I'm not totally against the idea of "party X failed us over and over, let's try something new". It's a reasonable take even if it wouldn't be the first thing I look at.

But anybody who thinks in those terms would certainly never vote Republican for President. It's been like 30 years of Republican presidents leaving the country (and especially the economy) in shambles and Democratic presidents presiding over recoveries.

micah

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #231 on: August 18, 2020, 11:59:42 PM »
I mean... I'm not totally against the idea of "party X failed us over and over, let's try something new". It's a reasonable take even if it wouldn't be the first thing I look at.

But anybody who thinks in those terms would certainly never vote Republican for President. It's been like 30 years of Republican presidents leaving the country (and especially the economy) in shambles and Democratic presidents presiding over recoveries.

...but even that is a matter of (biased) opinion.  I think the argument this politician is referring to is that, while to your point the country has had significant setbacks under republican leadership, the cities (and states) lead largely or wholly by democrats have certainly fared worse, especially in economically and racially diverse communities. The democrat's compassionate big ideas seem like, at best, pandering empty promises and, at worst, a systematic and systemic model of oppression that keeps democrats in power and undermines the underclass.  Welfare has not helped anyone out of poverty, massive education spending has not increased graduation rates in "under served" areas despite huge per-student budgets, gun control has not stopped gun violence and the list goes on.

of course, this goes both ways - the war on drugs is similarly a failing of minority communities lead largely by conservatives but with massive buy-in from most democratic politicians.  Just look at Biden's record as a senator for 35+ years and Kamala Harris' track record on criminal justice as an attorney general.  Where was their progressive sense of liberal compassion during all that time?
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Perspective

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #232 on: August 19, 2020, 08:27:36 AM »
> pandering empty promises

I thought that was the job description for "politician" :D

charlie

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #233 on: August 19, 2020, 01:04:11 PM »
...but even that is a matter of (biased) opinion. 

It's not that hard to come up with objective measures to assess rather than refer to it as opinion. If anybody has some objective measures that make sense they'd like to propose we can check them so that we aren't being so biased.


the cities (and states) lead largely or wholly by democrats have certainly fared worse

Have they? States-wise, I don't know if I buy this. I'm curious where you're coming from there.

As for cities, it's more plausible but I wonder how you think they have faired worse. Crime is way down, cities are generally still thriving and as far as I know track the overall economy. Things aren't perfect but I can't think of what types of things are specifically worse in cities.

micah

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #234 on: August 19, 2020, 02:43:41 PM »
I was answering in the context of the video where she is specifically speaking about the failure of democrats to "fix" the problems in african american communities.  Crime is down, sure nationally...but tell that to Baltimore or Chicago.  Cities as a whole may track with the GDP but the poverty rate among blacks remains in the 25% to 28% range.  To her point, Democrats are supposed to be the party that cares about black people, but these problems are consistently more prevalent and in most cases much worse in cities that have been democrat controlled for decades.


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charlie

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #235 on: August 19, 2020, 04:03:24 PM »
Well either you're talking about local politics, which I don't really have a problem with saying local politicians in those cities aren't doing a good job (but I would prefer specifics rather than generalizations) or you're talking about more national and state level politics where which party's agenda has a greater affect on their livelihoods is up for debate.

Also.. crime is down nationally, and in most democratically controlled cities. I did a quick search and it's hard to find clear stats but other than a dramatic rise in Baltimore recently and a spike in Chicago a couple years back everything I found indicated that crime is going down even in largely "blue" places. I think you're gonna have to find some solid evidence if you want us to believe these cities have "certainly" fared worse.

hans

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #236 on: August 20, 2020, 01:52:13 PM »
"Controlled" is also a generic term too. I don't know what the percentage is for the states in question but it might be true that there isn't a veto proof majority to just pass whatever they want. So while a state (or even at federal level as we see now) can be "controlled" by one party or the other, it's certainly possible for the other one to stall whatever agenda there is.
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Jake

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #237 on: August 23, 2020, 10:10:52 AM »
I wonder why this song is not trending ;)

https://youtu.be/I6FmwBPDT-w
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ober

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #238 on: August 24, 2020, 05:13:33 PM »
It's not trending because there are so many issues with a lot of what he said. 

charlie

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Re: Election 2020
« Reply #239 on: August 24, 2020, 07:07:18 PM »
It looks dumb and I was going to ignore it but since you replied ober I watched a minute and yes it was dumb.

It's taking the most extreme voices tangentially related to an ideology, exaggerating and misconstruing their beliefs, then applying those to the entire group (except the people they know, who of course don't count).