Author Topic: Things i have noticed about michigan....  (Read 16959 times)

kermi3

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Re: Things i have noticed about michigan....
« Reply #60 on: September 13, 2009, 08:43:26 AM »
Seriously 15 days??? I vote Lift it. He'd cooled. This thread had about died and talking about spiders. Disagreeing with his opinion (which I certainly do) is no reason to ban him. He wasn't being am ass about it.
govtcheez03:  i kind of look for it - i seek out stupidity and annoy it until it either gets better, gets banned, or goes away on its own

Rob

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Re: Things i have noticed about michigan....
« Reply #61 on: September 13, 2009, 09:09:16 AM »
It's a fair point kermi. He is entitled to his opinion, as obnoxious as it may seem to the rest of us, and I don't think he crossed any borders in terms of abusing anyone. In fact, we probably crossed that line instead. If I don't see a post to the contrary by the end of today I'll lift it.

Govtcheez

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Re: Things i have noticed about michigan....
« Reply #62 on: September 13, 2009, 09:20:24 AM »
Racism has no place in society, especially not modern society.  Trying to justify abhorrent beliefs by saying right-thinking people "just don't get it" is even worse.

Mike

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Re: Things i have noticed about michigan....
« Reply #63 on: September 13, 2009, 11:22:33 AM »
I guess the question becomes:  Do we as a group/community/whatever wish to allow the spouting off of racism?

Rob

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Re: Things i have noticed about michigan....
« Reply #64 on: September 13, 2009, 11:32:40 AM »
I guess the question becomes:  Do we as a group/community/whatever wish to allow the spouting off of racism?

Disagree. The question becomes do we wish to allow freedom of speech surely. However abhorrent it is, RoD is entitled to his opinion, no? Rather than ban him we should destroy his argument.

A Bit of Fruit

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Re: Things i have noticed about michigan....
« Reply #65 on: September 13, 2009, 11:42:10 AM »
I guess the question becomes:  Do we as a group/community/whatever wish to allow the spouting off of racism?

Disagree. The question becomes do we wish to allow freedom of speech surely. However abhorrent it is, RoD is entitled to his opinion, no? Rather than ban him we should destroy his argument.
Bang on the money! If people can be banned for expressing their opinions in this way, then I see no point in participating at all. As much as I don't want to make this personal, I can't help but mention how much I dislike the way Govt. posts in this thread. RoD is being completely polite, and while I completely disagree with RoD, I find myself rolling my eyes at Govt.'s (and others', though) abusive responses, containing little actual discussion.
i have a stationary fetish

Govtcheez

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Re: Things i have noticed about michigan....
« Reply #66 on: September 13, 2009, 01:23:50 PM »
we should destroy his argument.
Good luck with that.  I've been in enough of these to know that he's just going to keep spouting the same "you don't get it" shit.  Because his job specifically entails him dealing with people that are wanted for one crime or another and are overwhelmingly black that's probably more or less his only regular encounters with black people.  If he looked into things a little more it'd be clear that his views are totally wrong, but he's already shown a complete lack of ability for self-examination

> RoD is being completely polite, and while I completely disagree with RoD, I find myself rolling my eyes at Govt.'s (and others', though) abusive responses

I see no reason to be civil with people like that.  If someone came in here talking about the master race and how jews deserved extermination, he would get piled on, and rightfully so.

Rob

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Re: Things i have noticed about michigan....
« Reply #67 on: September 13, 2009, 01:52:33 PM »
I...I just feel uncomfortable with banning someone for what are effectively opinions. I've always tried to defend peoples right to their views, even if the views themselves are indefensible.

Ultimately it makes little difference to me whether RoD remains banned or not. I'll respect the views of my fellow mods that the ban remains.

Govtcheez

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Re: Things i have noticed about michigan....
« Reply #68 on: September 13, 2009, 01:56:51 PM »
You guys can unban him if you want, but I see it not really as an endorsement of racist speech but at least an acceptance of it, and that's wrong imo.  Again, if someone came in here and starting spouting Nazi nonsense I doubt the feeling would be the same.

charlie

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Re: Things i have noticed about michigan....
« Reply #69 on: September 13, 2009, 02:05:46 PM »
I thought the ban was more for the rest of the forum to cool off than for RoD to cool off. :dunno:

And whether or not the forum allows someone to express those kind of views is a legitimate question (i.e. whether he should be banned for racist statements). I can see valid reasoning on both sides.

On the one side, we are pretty much all adults who engage in adult discussions. Suppressing certain opinions because they are inflammatory and bigoted implies that we are somehow unable to handle contradictory views. This is a site dedicated to random shit, it's not like we're a programming help forum and this distracts from our ultimate goals. In addition, we allow discussion of other forms of bigotry that are more widely accepted in our societies, so why is the line drawn in front of RoD instead of behind him?

On the other hand, this is a place we all come to enjoy ourselves. Having people post such incendiary ideas changes the atmosphere of the forum and clearly causes emotional reactions in its members. It is perfectly acceptable to try to maintain a civil environment for all of us. In addition, you never know which members are directly offended by hateful statements. It is one thing to have an environment where the atmosphere isn't perfect because people post offensive things, it is entirely another where people directly offend other members with their posts.

I don't agree that allowing someone to post stupid shit is an acceptance of said stupid shit. If we don't accept what someone says as a valid opinion, we say so. There's no need to suppress an opinion to indicate that the forum members in general think it is abhorrent.

I honestly don't know what's best. I'd personally lean towards not banning him for racist remarks, but I also don't like the idea of allowing somebody to post offensively without some kind of repercussion. Personally I'm fine with a temporary ban to let the forum cool off and hopefully when he comes back the topic is dead. Again, :dunno:.

Mike

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Re: Things i have noticed about michigan....
« Reply #70 on: September 13, 2009, 02:45:46 PM »
I...I just feel uncomfortable with banning someone for what are effectively opinions. I've always tried to defend peoples right to their views, even if the views themselves are indefensible.

Ultimately it makes little difference to me whether RoD remains banned or not. I'll respect the views of my fellow mods that the ban remains.
I support ober's banning but at the same time it could have been less.  I'd also support you if you wanted to unban him.  One of the reasons we have many mods is for checking purposes.

VBprogrammer

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Re: Things i have noticed about michigan....
« Reply #71 on: September 13, 2009, 04:10:15 PM »
I have no problem with him being banned for that. What he said was undoubtably completely racist and I think drawing the line at that is perfectly reasonable.

micah

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Re: Things i have noticed about michigan....
« Reply #72 on: September 13, 2009, 04:37:52 PM »
It's a fair point kermi. He is entitled to his opinion, as obnoxious as it may seem to the rest of us, and I don't think he crossed any borders in terms of abusing anyone. In fact, we probably crossed that line instead. If I don't see a post to the contrary by the end of today I'll lift it.

I've purposely stayed out of this thread but I will chime in here to say I agree 100% with Kermi and RobR's sentiments. I don't condone the spewing of racism, but honestly, some of you guys just sounded like total ass-holes.  

perhaps the more mature thing to do would be say, "this debate can clearly not reach a mutual agreement and needs to be ended. Thread Closed."
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 04:52:09 PM by micah »
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KnuckleBuckett

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Re: Things i have noticed about michigan....
« Reply #73 on: September 13, 2009, 05:14:20 PM »
Yeah.  I disagree with banning for having a difference of opinion.

Kill the ban and end this dismal thread.

ober

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Re: Things i have noticed about michigan....
« Reply #74 on: September 13, 2009, 08:44:02 PM »
I didn't ban him primarily for his statements.  I banned him for Cheez asking to use his STFU card.  I agree that free speech should be allowed, but I thought things were getting out of hand.  Someone had to STFU for a bit, IMO.