Author Topic: Shootings  (Read 34275 times)

charlie

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 7903
  • Karma: +84/-53
Re: Shootings
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2012, 08:37:26 PM »
Pretty much, although I think they'd frame it as "we should let ordinary citizens be armed so they can protect themselves".

Betazep

  • Sunk
  • Founders
  • Posts: 1685
  • Karma: +14/-5
Re: Shootings
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2012, 09:21:39 PM »
I live in Arizona... we can carry all the guns we want... all the time.  It would be pretty impractical though.  I have a hard enough time remembering my phone, my wallet, and my keys.  I don't need a side arm and a concealed ankle holster every where I go. 38 years old... and I have never been in a situation that *required* a weapon.  Doesn't mean I don't think I should have the right to own them.... but people go a little over the top with all the damn drama.  (on both sides)
"The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most experts agree, is by accident. That's where we come in; we're computer professionals. We cause accidents." -Nathaniel Borenstein

kermi3

  • ?
  • Ass Wipe
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +56/-22
Re: Shootings
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2012, 09:45:41 AM »
I've been shooting a few times.   Loved it each one.  Including shooting military issue M-16's (thank you week with the Israeli military)...it's fun...but I can see absolutely no reason a person should nee to own one of those.  None.  Makes no fucking sense to me....They're not for hunting...they're not for defense...they're ASSAULT weapons.  They're used to attack people and target shoot....

...if you want to own one and it stays locked up at a range (or at least the bullets do) - then fine...but I can no longer comprehend why someone would need to have a loaded AR-15 at home....
govtcheez03:  i kind of look for it - i seek out stupidity and annoy it until it either gets better, gets banned, or goes away on its own

JaWiB

  • definitelys definately no MacGyver
  • Jackass V
  • Posts: 1443
  • Karma: +57/-4
Re: Shootings
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2012, 12:31:58 AM »
I've been shooting a few times.   Loved it each one.  Including shooting military issue M-16's (thank you week with the Israeli military)...it's fun...but I can see absolutely no reason a person should nee to own one of those.  None.  Makes no fucking sense to me....They're not for hunting...they're not for defense...they're ASSAULT weapons.  They're used to attack people and target shoot....

...if you want to own one and it stays locked up at a range (or at least the bullets do) - then fine...but I can no longer comprehend why someone would need to have a loaded AR-15 at home....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_movement

kermi3

  • ?
  • Ass Wipe
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +56/-22
Re: Shootings
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2012, 12:42:05 AM »
Quote from: America, Fuck Yea!
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Those people are crazies...Ask steve, if he didn't think EVERYONE was trying to fuck him over, he'd be one of them....
govtcheez03:  i kind of look for it - i seek out stupidity and annoy it until it either gets better, gets banned, or goes away on its own

Jake

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 8652
  • Karma: +83/-18
Re: Shootings
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2012, 10:39:45 AM »
I went to a gun show over the weekend and it was totally insane. I've never been to a show that was this busy! Pretty ridiculous...prices have been jacked up and I mean way up, and people were still buying everything out. For example, AR15 30 round magazines that a couple weeks ago retailed for about $20 were selling for $80+. All the new AR15's (the rifles themselves) were sold out - there were a few used ones and those were selling for about $2K!!!! holy shit. The really crappy AK47s (century arms made) that you could get new for about $450 two weeks ago were welling for $700-$800. Used Romanian Wassers AK47s (like the one I have which I bought for $350 a few years back) were selling for $950+ - FUCKING INSANE.

.223 caliber brass (empty shells for refilling) that normally sell for about $.07/each were at $.25/each.
AK47 ammo - 7.62x39 - was selling for $6.99+ for 20. I got some two weeks ago for $4.29 for 20.
 

Let me tell you - gun dealers - legit and the dirty ones - are having a very Merry Christmas this year thanks to talks about this ban on "assault weapons" and large mags.

Discuss.
Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

Mike

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 11257
  • Karma: +168/-32
  • Ex Asshole - a better and more caring person.
Re: Shootings
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2012, 11:21:04 AM »
I can no longer comprehend why someone would need to have a loaded AR-15 at home....
I know!  The M-4 makes a much better home defense weapon

Jake

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 8652
  • Karma: +83/-18
Re: Shootings
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2012, 11:33:38 AM »
I can no longer comprehend why someone would need to have a loaded AR-15 at home....
I know!  The M-4 makes a much better home defense weapon

I prefer the AK - my $.02 ;)
Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

kermi3

  • ?
  • Ass Wipe
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +56/-22
Re: Shootings
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2012, 11:50:05 AM »
Do have to wonder what took the NRA so long to respond - you know their membership and dues have sky rocketed in the past few weeks...abnd there are a lot of people who stand to make a whole lot of short term profit via fear mongering over this...and who profit by making people fear government/other groups in the community...
govtcheez03:  i kind of look for it - i seek out stupidity and annoy it until it either gets better, gets banned, or goes away on its own

Mike

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 11257
  • Karma: +168/-32
  • Ex Asshole - a better and more caring person.
Re: Shootings
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2012, 12:43:23 PM »
I can no longer comprehend why someone would need to have a loaded AR-15 at home....
I know!  The M-4 makes a much better home defense weapon

I prefer the AK - my $.02 ;)
Which AK?  There are quite a few models.  For home defense you are talking confined areas so a smaller and more movable weapon is better than a larger weapon.  The range you get with a rifle is meaningless when the max distance traveled is less than 100ft.

kermi3

  • ?
  • Ass Wipe
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +56/-22
Re: Shootings
« Reply #40 on: December 24, 2012, 12:57:18 PM »
govtcheez03:  i kind of look for it - i seek out stupidity and annoy it until it either gets better, gets banned, or goes away on its own

Mike

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 11257
  • Karma: +168/-32
  • Ex Asshole - a better and more caring person.
Re: Shootings
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2012, 01:11:28 PM »
The gernade launcher has too much collateral damage.  The computer might get hurt!

Jake

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 8652
  • Karma: +83/-18
Re: Shootings
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2012, 07:20:41 PM »
I wonder why this didn't make national news. I can it doesn't play into the current reactionary agenda...and I do understand that the hero was an off duty cop, who had training and all that jazz...but I think we should encorporate something like that into our conceal carry laws.

I think all states should permit conceal carry, under provisions like:
1. extensive background check
2. psych evaluation
3. xx many hours of training
4. $xxx cost
5. reevaluation and reexamination every two years to keep permit

I think at that point you would eliminate 98% of dipshits who want to use it for evil.

admin edit: fixed bbc tag
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 07:26:32 PM by Mike »
Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

charlie

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 7903
  • Karma: +84/-53
Re: Shootings
« Reply #43 on: December 31, 2012, 02:58:32 PM »
I wonder why this didn't make national news.

Stuff like that happens a lot, so it's not really national news worthy. No reason to think this was going to be a mass shooting, so it's not specifically relevant. All the kids getting shot in high crime neighborhoods and all the people using readily available guns to kill themselves don't make national news either. I don't think it's because they show one side of the gun debate or the other in a better light.

micah

  • A real person, on the Internet.
  • Ass Wipe
  • Posts: 6915
  • Karma: +58/-55
  • Truth cannot contradict truth.
    • micahj.com
Re: Shootings
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2013, 11:35:27 AM »
As a non-criminal, non-crazy (I checked the box on the application that says I'm sane) permit holder in my states, I off course agree with you Jake that there should be well trained and citizens allowed to carry in public to protect themselves, their families and anyone in dire need.  To your points...

>>1. extensive background check
fine by me, i was finger printed and the state sends them to the feds for an OK before they issued my permit.  Not sure how much more extensive it needs to be, if I'm not a known criminal, what more should the government be allowed to check on? What if I don't pay my taxes, can I still get a permit?

>>2. psych evaluation
in principle, I don't disagree with this, but how to do you implement this in a reasonable and standardized way? I'm pretty sure plenty of crazys would slipp through the cracks if it was just a formulized interview. I'm not a psychiatrist but I assume it takes many sessions with a willing, honest, and cooperative subject to determine thier mental state.  And where do you draw the line? only fully sane people can get permits? what if you daddy issues or think you're santa clause but have no violent tendecies or depression?

>>3. xx many hours of training
Fine with this as long as its reasonable.  I took an 8 hour state-approved NRA safety course that was about 6 hours in the classroom, a written test and and hour of hands on range time.  I could see extending this to include more hands on time with the instructor and more discussion of the legality of when and where it is safe and legal to use a firearm.

>>4. $xxx cost
It was pretty expensive.  The NRA class, the fingerprint/background-check fee, the local temporary permit (which is required to get the state permit) and the state permit.  All cost me several hundred dollars.

>>5. reevaluation and reexamination every two years to keep permit
Hmm, probably smart.  Two years might be extreme, but at least a basic proficiency demonstration might not be a bad idea when you renew (in Connecticut thats every 5 years.)

>>I think at that point you would eliminate 98% of dipshits who want to use it for evil.
yes, but the current hoops already eliminate the 99.99% of those dipshits -- those people don't go through the processes already in place; they aquire weapons through illiciet means and have no regard for the law.  The Sandy Hook shooter tried to buy a gun in Connecticut but was denied because he didn't have a permit.  So instead he killed his mom and took her guns.

I agree some reform is in order and these are good places to start but I'm concerned about the cost hurdle that it creates.  While I don't have a problem with shifting the administrative costs on to the applicant, those costs could be very restrictive (which it looks like you're in favor of in #3) but I feel that such restrictiveness is beyond the scope of power the government should have.  In effect, you're saying that poor people don't have the same rights as people who can afford to pay the tribute.
"I possess a device, in my pocket, that is capable of accessing the entirety of information known to man.  I use it to look at pictures of cats and get in arguments with strangers."