Poll

Vote for your preferred candidate(s) for U.S. President

Donald Trump (R)
0 (0%)
Joe Biden (D)
3 (60%)
Jo Jorgensen (L)
2 (40%)
Howie Hawkins (G)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 5

Voting closed: November 03, 2020, 02:48:43 PM

Author Topic: Election 2020  (Read 53750 times)

Mike

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 11248
  • Karma: +168/-32
  • Ex Asshole - a better and more caring person.
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #75 on: November 18, 2019, 09:13:58 PM »
Why the fear of "socialism"? I find it funny that Americans are happy with publicly funded schools, emergency services, city/state infrastructure, but cringe in fear over the idea of publicly funding other essential services like health care. It works in literally every other 1st world country in the world, why not make 'merica great and fund the basic needs of your citizens?

And while we are here, the Dutch are paying for prostitutes for disabled people

Jake

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 8650
  • Karma: +83/-18
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #76 on: November 20, 2019, 09:51:45 AM »
As far as healthcare is involved, I think I could live with a Canadian type of single payer solution. One of the biggest issues with government funded healthcare is wait times. I don't know how it is in Canada, but I have relatives peppered around the EU and in all cases, the biggest complaint is frequent need to wait to go see a specialist - wait times that are would sound unreasonable to most of us in the states. And if you want to go see someone right away, you still end up going "private" and paying out of your own pocket.

And a very real example: my 90 year old grand mother living in Poland needed eye surgery for cataracts (or something like that) - it took close to two years to get both eyes done.

I don't know what the perfect system is. I hate most of what we have right now and how expensive insurance is. I mean, it is ridiculous - this year just health insurance for my family cost just over $9K and we have a middle of the road plan. This year was really the first year we all had to go see a doctor, and our bills on top of the $9k were about $1K.

Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

Jake

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 8650
  • Karma: +83/-18
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #77 on: November 20, 2019, 10:12:28 AM »
Socialism works great on paper, but not in practice. I was very little when Poland has overthrown their red oppressor after over 50 years of communism in 1989. These 50 years of socialist rule set that country back 200 years! I don't remember much of it, if at all, but I heard many, many stories from my family members.

I'll share the more ludicrous one with you: under communism, every one "received" housing from the government. For the most part, you didn't have a choice, you had to live in an apartment that was assigned to you. My dad knew someone in a wheelchair that was assigned an apartment in a multi story building on one of the top floors. The only problem, the building never had a working elevator. The man appealed, but was never given another flat. This one sat empty for years as he lived with relatives out side of the city.
Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

Jake

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 8650
  • Karma: +83/-18
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #78 on: November 20, 2019, 10:21:29 AM »
I don't want to be "made" or "told" to help others. I don't want to pay 50%+ taxes to support abusers of the social systems. Shit, I don't want to pay the taxes I pay now to do it either. I don't want to pay and deal with more bureaucracy - most government managed agencies are inefficient and bloated - if private companies were ran like that, they would never survive. When I visit institutions like that, and I see the way many of the people there "work", it makes me sick.

The "union" mentality makes me sick too. My cousin who works in a sheet metal union shop got "ratted" on twice by fellow workers - once for working too fast, and another time for working on machines he was not certified on. It backfired because that just made him get a fast track to the level he is on now because the owner did not want to lose him. But to this day, he doesn't have many friends in the shop because of his [great] work ethic.

Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

Jake

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 8650
  • Karma: +83/-18
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #79 on: November 20, 2019, 10:47:10 AM »
I also don't want to be told how to be tolerant. I feel like tolerance for various marginalized groups is being forced down our throats. We are told how we should feel about it. I say, fuck that.

I don't want my kids to be learning about certain things from their teachers in school.

this type of shit makes me not want to ever vote for a democrat

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-lgbtq-history-illinois-schools-law-20190826-m2k4qtpiifhkzp5a76dwtwlbwy-story.html
https://www.npr.org/local/309/2019/09/16/761172388/palatine-open-to-full-transgender-bathroom-rights-for-students

I also think that this type of SJW bullshit is hurting democrats a lot more than they know.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 12:09:00 PM by Jake »
Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

Mike

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 11248
  • Karma: +168/-32
  • Ex Asshole - a better and more caring person.
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #80 on: November 20, 2019, 11:27:58 AM »
Yes, because recognizing minorities and giving people access to bathrooms is such a terrible burden and imposition upon Good White Christians.

Jake

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 8650
  • Karma: +83/-18
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #81 on: November 20, 2019, 12:08:30 PM »
Yes, because recognizing minorities and giving people access to bathrooms is such a terrible burden and imposition upon Good White Christians.

if that is your argument, and that is the way you think of me, then we can just stop this discussion, because it will not lead anywhere.
Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

Mike

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 11248
  • Karma: +168/-32
  • Ex Asshole - a better and more caring person.
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #82 on: November 20, 2019, 12:25:10 PM »
Well, what is your argument of why people shouldn't be able to use the bathroom?  Or why shouldn't schools educate students on the impacts of LGBTQ people?  I personally think that we should educate people on Alan Turning, his contributions, and how he was ostracized and very likely driven to suicide for simply being gay.

The arguments I've heard against these stances are the very same arguments used against people of color back in the 60s and 70s.

Jake

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 8650
  • Karma: +83/-18
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #83 on: November 20, 2019, 02:40:04 PM »
Or why shouldn't schools educate students on the impacts of LGBTQ people? 

because I don't think that it is necessary to stress that this person was gay, or that person was black, yellow, white, whatever. I think we should stress the importance of that person and what they have done, instead of what it says on their facebook profile...constantly having breaking down people into groups has might have an adverse effect - and I think it does. It just points out how different we are, where I think that the point would be to show how similar.

Real life example: I live in a Chicago suburb, that means that the make up of my kids' classrooms is very culturally rich and colorful. There are two black kids in my son's class, a boy and a girl. The girl is quite mischievous and not very nice to the other kids. Anyway, my son asked me a couple weeks ago why she is treated different than he is as well as other kids. When there is punishment handed out for the same bad behavior, hers is always different. As far as we know, she doesn't have a mental issue or a disability, she just misbehaves more than most - but her parents are very outspoken and when in earlier grades she was punished, they would make a big stink about it publicly. And ever since, the school's faculty takes a different approach. Now, whose fault is that? it is not the girl's - kids are kids, and some are worst behaved than others. It is not the parents - they are standing up for their kid like most parents would. I think it is the faculty's fault - instead of treating everyone the same and fairly, they are not - and the reason (at least in my eyes) is the skin color. Behaviors like that is what places wedges between races.

I'll give you another example, from my childhood. I went to a Chicago public school through grade 8. In the 8th grade, there was a black kid that would torment me  - he would call me a stupid polack among other things daily. Finally, one day I called him a dumb nigger, or something like that. He went and told on me. And even though multiple other kids told the teacher he called me a polack for many weeks, I got suspended and he got a warning. Again, kids are kids and we both shouldn't have said what we did, but the white principal decided to make it a race thing because she was [more than likely] scare of repercussions of giving the black boy the same punishment as she did to me.
Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

Jake

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 8650
  • Karma: +83/-18
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #84 on: November 20, 2019, 02:46:22 PM »
BTW - I'm done trolling for trump in this thread - it is quite exhausting pretending to root for him. The guy is a piece of shit of a human being - I still doubt he will get impeached, but hope so. Unfortunately, he will be affecting our lives for many years into the future.
Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

Jake

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 8650
  • Karma: +83/-18
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #85 on: November 20, 2019, 02:55:17 PM »
what is your argument of why people shouldn't be able to use the bathroom?

I certainly don't want boys that identify as girls being able to use the same bathroom as my daughter in grade school, middle, or high school. And vice versa. After you turn 18, identify as a deer, as far as I'm concern, and do whatever you want. But don't force the issue of using another gender's bathroom. If you have a Y chromosome, use a urinal. Again, instead of making people feel inclusive, it seems like we are trying to go out of our way to show the differences.

Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

charlie

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 7896
  • Karma: +84/-53
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #86 on: November 20, 2019, 03:04:07 PM »
because I don't think that it is necessary to stress that this person was gay, or that person was black, yellow, white, whatever. I think we should stress the importance of that person and what they have done, instead of what it says on their facebook profile...constantly having breaking down people into groups has might have an adverse effect - and I think it does. It just points out how different we are, where I think that the point would be to show how similar.

I have a couple problems with this thinking:

One is that people have been constantly broken down into groups and separated by their differences. Saying you don't want to do that only now that it is being done to help marginalized groups, well, it doesn't seem like the best timing does it?

Second, people are still discriminated against. So the separation into groups that leads to negative consequences for minorities is still happening. If it's still happening in that direction then even if you disagree with it going the other direction I don't see how it could bother you or be a major factor in your political preferences.

Like think about it... of all the things affecting the country and the world today, you're basing a significant amount of your political choices on being upset about being told (i.e. asked) to be tolerant??

ober

  • Ashton Shagger
  • Ass Wipe
  • Posts: 14305
  • Karma: +73/-790
  • mini-ober is taking over
    • Windy Hill Web Solutions
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #87 on: November 20, 2019, 03:05:23 PM »
Jake - I don't disagree with your reasoning behind the cultural stuff.  To some degree, I agree that constantly bringing up the issues just reiterates the 'lines' in society and does nothing to suppress them.  I think our kids are being raised in a far more tolerant society than the one we were raised in.  That doesn't mean it's perfect and a lot of people died or fought for the way things are today.  I think that needs to be recognized in some way.  But maybe not as blatantly as it's being pursued by some schools.

On your other notes, I am not advocating for socialism in any way.  I also don't think the current democratic candidates are either.  People put that label on their policy suggestions because they fear it.  But something has to change.  We can't keep doing what we're doing.  You tout private companies as doing things better but they're not.  They're just as corrupt as any other organization. 

Jake

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 8650
  • Karma: +83/-18
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #88 on: November 20, 2019, 03:37:43 PM »
Like think about it... of all the things affecting the country and the world today, you're basing a significant amount of your political choices on being upset about being told (i.e. asked) to be tolerant??

yes, I agree, that's fucked up - but it seems like I have no choice. I feel we live in a all or nothing political atmosphere. We are forced to vote for the people that represent the fringe, and with that comes the left and right extremism - why, because those sides are so vocal, and both parties want to cater to them. Whereas, I think, most of America is not that way - but they need to vote one or the other due to lack of choice.
Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

Jake

  • Jackass In Charge
  • Posts: 8650
  • Karma: +83/-18
Re: Election 2020
« Reply #89 on: November 20, 2019, 03:46:07 PM »
You tout private companies as doing things better but they're not.  They're just as corrupt as any other organization. 

I never mentioned corruption. My point was about efficiency - and lack there of as being a chronic problem of governmental agencies. Why should workers be on a raise schedule that is not tied in to their performance. In most government and other union environments, the guy that works his ass off gets the same raise as the one that does the bare minimum - and that's fucked imo. Again, if private companies ran the same way, they would never succeed.
Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.