Topic: power/outlet networking

[ober]

Yeah, webwhy, you can do all that stuff which is another selling point.  I would hate to buy in as a new customer at this point because it can't be cheap.  Luckily, they're letting me get a break on the lifetime subscription by 50% because I have one now.  Plus I get a small break on the Premiere.  All said and done, I get the basic Premiere and another lifetime subscription for about $468.  The lifetime subscription pays for itself pretty quickly so you'd be stupid to go with the monthly or even yearly subscription, IMO.

And Knuck, I'm not sure what else you would like them to innovate on.  They have a product that has seen the addition of the leading streaming video services, they still offer the most seamless DVR experience, the new ones take the CableCARD (getting rid of the cable box), they offer the ability to transfer most recorded content to networked computers, they allow you to transfer recordings to other tivos on a network, you can search the web and your guide for show information and they have the best remote hands down for a DVR system.

Exactly what else are you looking for?  No other system on the market provides what they provide.

[webwhy]

Exactly what else are you looking for?  No other system on the market provides what they provide.

As of now i'm thinking the same thing.  the fact that i can received uncompressed HDTV over the air and have a DVR (with network and premium content) is a huge win.  the other boxes seem to do the internet and premium content well enough, but I'd like to be able to record programming on the channels I'm receiving via my antenna...

[ober]

Welcome to the awesomeness that is Tivo. 

[KnuckleBuckett]

Here is a list of additions, updates, innovations, and changes I would like to see.  BTW I am keeping price point in mind when commenting.  Also, I understand that expecting all of these is asking for a lot.  I am sure some issues are more about laws, licensing, and politics rather  than lack of intent.  Finally, again, TiVo is still best in category.  They just need to get off of their ass and innovate instead of increment.

Here goes...

1 TiVo to TiVo upgrade utility.  When moving from an older unit to a new one we should be able to keep our older settings (where reasonable) and recordings.  A simple straight forward transfer isn't asking too much considering that it is proprietary Linux based equipment.

2 MoCA interface.

3 A better processor.  TiVos are slow.  Damned slow and laggy.  Considering the current state of inexpensive yet powerful CPUs and SoCs the chugging in a TiVo is terrible.  This may also be caused in part by too little on board memory.

4 Minimum quad tuner.  Optional  dual quad tuners.  Sounds like too many until you get a family of four using it.

5 Key word searches would be nice.

6 Integrated BlueTooth and Wi-Fi.

7 Porting recorded shows to your mobile device would be nice.

8 1TB hdd minimum.  Optional 4TB.  The optional external is a nice addition here.  Stock 250GB is just silly!

9 Multi-room separate streaming, recording, and tuning.

10 Multiple user accounts.  Fully separate accounts per user (family member).  This would mean separate Wishlists, Season Passes, Thumbs Up/Down data, etc.

11 True2Way support - On-Demand licensing deals and access.

12 Intelligent recording that...
-Seeks out scheduling conflicts, changes, power outages, signal drops, and under-recording slots.  These could alert you via email, text, or simply on-screen.
-Recording repeats if you missed recording the original but not otherwise.

13 TiVo created and backed Android/WinMoFo app integration.  They have an iPad app.  Spread the wealth!

14 Tivo supported Windows Media player, Banshee, VLC, etc. plug in.

15 The remote with the built in keyboard should be the default remote rather than adding $90 extra.  Oh yeah and it needs a Bluetooth dongle (noted the lack of integration previously).  Really?

16 At least three HDMI inputs four would be awesome.

17 The price plans are expensive if you aren't a niche customer like you were/are.  For the XL as a new member you will have over $525 that year alone.  Plus $240 every year from then on.  I see no mention of lifetime plans anymore.
-https://www3.tivo.com/store/premiere.do

18 Bring back the 30 second skip.  People loved this little Easter egg.  I didn't use it but many did.

All I have time for now...

[webwhy]

+ The price plans are expensive if you aren't a niche customer like you were/are.  For the XL as a new member you will have over $525 that year alone.  Plus $240 every year from then on.  I see no mention of lifetime plans anymore.
-https://www3.tivo.com/store/premiere.do

i found it buried deep in the legalese of their terms and conditions documents.  It's quite possible that it is no longer available and they forgot to remove it from their terms.

There is no mention of it in the promotions or any where else on the website.  I plan on calling them and asking.

[KnuckleBuckett]

Be interesting to see what you find out.

[ober]

OK, so my responses to your wishlist:

1) Upgrade utility - as long as you have both connected to the network or the internet, you can transfer shows, wishlists, and I think some other things as well.  That was one of the first things they showed me after I checked out this morning.
2) MoCA seems like a 'nice to have'.
3) I'll let you know how the Premiere works out, but compared to other DVRs, I'd say even my Series 2 Tivo is decent.  Sure, it's a little slow, but it's crunching through a ton of data.
4) Quad tuner.  I would probably agree with that.  I imagine there is probably a bandwidth limitation though.
5) I can do keyword searches on my Series 2.  They've had this for a long time.
6) Integrated Wi-Fi and bluetooth would be a no brainer.  I'm not sure why they haven't done this already.
7) Porting to mobile would be ok I guess.  But I think you could probably do this fairly easily with tivo desktop.
8) I guess more room would be nice.  But I don't think they market themselves as a 'complete home media storage system'.  That's probably why they haven't done it.
9) Multi-room.  Not sure what you mean here.  You can already view/stream/transfer recordings in/to other tivos on a network.  I'm not sure how you expect one device to do all of your tuning for your entire house though.  I mean, that seems a little unreasonable.  That would require streaming content all over the house and I doubt most people have the hardware/network to do that.
10) Separate user accounts would be nice, I guess.  I doubt we would use it though, at least not right now.  We don't even use the suggestion stuff (thumbs up/down) as it is.  I find that technology to be hit or miss across the board on any platform anyways.
11) Not sure what True2Way is.
12) That would be nice but I can see why some of that would be difficult to create and manage without fucking it up sometimes.  Do you know how often the lineup cable channels put out is flat out wrong?  That's not Tivo's fault.  Bad info in, bad recordings.  Tivo has no idea it did anything wrong.  Power problems and the like are different, but most of our 'fuckups' are due to the shitty information the networks put with their shows.
13) I bet that is on the road map.
14) Not sure what that gives you?
15) Remote with keyboard should be the default, I agree, but I don't think they should give it away for free.
16) I don't really use HDMI yet, but I'm not sure why you need so many ports on the DVR itself?
17) Yeah, the plans are kind of expensive, I'll give you that.  I think you can still get the lifetime plan.  It was an option when I bought mine and I just got 50% off.  And I just read in the payment plan options that you can do the lifetime subscription for $399 as a new subscriber.  But you must have to call them to get that or something because it's not one of the options when you buy it.
18) 30 second skip would be cool.

So yeah, I agree on the most part, but like I said, I think overall it's still the best thing out there by far.

[kermi3]

http://lifehacker.com/#!5768317/this-is-all-about-xbmc

[KnuckleBuckett]

OK, so my responses to your wishlist:

1) Upgrade utility - as long as you have both connected to the network or the internet, you can transfer shows, wishlists, and I think some other things as well.  That was one of the first things they showed me after I checked out this morning.
Nice.  Why don't they advertise that?

2) MoCA seems like a 'nice to have'.
It would be awesome!  Best protocol out there by far.

3) I'll let you know how the Premiere works out, but compared to other DVRs, I'd say even my Series 2 Tivo is decent.  Sure, it's a little slow, but it's crunching through a ton of data.
Very slow.  I have seen them work.  No excuse for that.

4) Quad tuner.  I would probably agree with that.  I imagine there is probably a bandwidth limitation though.
Quad tuners exist.  http://www.cetoncorp.com/products.php  They get very good reviews even when stacked.

5) I can do keyword searches on my Series 2.  They've had this for a long time.
Nice.
6) Integrated Wi-Fi and bluetooth would be a no brainer.  I'm not sure why they haven't done this already.

7) Porting to mobile would be ok I guess.  But I think you could probably do this fairly easily with tivo desktop.

8) I guess more room would be nice.  But I don't think they market themselves as a 'complete home media storage system'.  That's probably why they haven't done it.
Silly to have anything but at least 1TB.  Again no excuse IMO.

9) Multi-room.  Not sure what you mean here.  You can already view/stream/transfer recordings in/to other tivos on a network.  I'm not sure how you expect one device to do all of your tuning for your entire house though.  I mean, that seems a little unreasonable.  That would require streaming content all over the house and I doubt most people have the hardware/network to do that.
Not all that difficult all things considered.  Again add a quad tuner with an option to have two.  Use Moca so that there isn't a bandwidth, hardware, or infrastructure issue(s).

10) Separate user accounts would be nice, I guess.  I doubt we would use it though, at least not right now.  We don't even use the suggestion stuff (thumbs up/down) as it is.  I find that technology to be hit or miss across the board on any platform anyways.
Many would.  I would.
11) Not sure what True2Way is.
Essentially a standard for #9.  Cable is supposed to be adopting it per the FCC.  But since the FCC is a bunch of squishy idiots it probably won't happen anytime soon.

12) That would be nice but I can see why some of that would be difficult to create and manage without fucking it up sometimes.  Do you know how often the lineup cable channels put out is flat out wrong?  That's not Tivo's fault.  Bad info in, bad recordings.  Tivo has no idea it did anything wrong.  Power problems and the like are different, but most of our 'fuckups' are due to the shitty information the networks put with their shows.
Agreed that it couldn't be perfect.  Better by far but never perfect.

13) I bet that is on the road map.

14) Not sure what that gives you?
I think a plug in for an enthusiast HTPC would be beyond awesome.  Windows and Linux.

15) Remote with keyboard should be the default, I agree, but I don't think they should give it away for free.
They aren't the damned thing already costs a mint!

16) I don't really use HDMI yet, but I'm not sure why you need so many ports on the DVR itself?
Built in device switching and throughput.  Same as you would use the currrently integrated HDMI ports.

17) Yeah, the plans are kind of expensive, I'll give you that.  I think you can still get the lifetime plan.  It was an option when I bought mine and I just got 50% off.  And I just read in the payment plan options that you can do the lifetime subscription for $399 as a new subscriber.  But you must have to call them to get that or something because it's not one of the options when you buy it.
Shit adds up!  And most folks don't know they can get lifetime (maybe).

18) 30 second skip would be cool.
It is.

So yeah, I agree on the most part, but like I said, I think overall it's still the best thing out there by far.
I agreed.  My bitch is that they aren't innovating but half-assed incrementing.  Boo.

[webwhy]

FYI.  i called them today.  the lifetime subscription is still available.  you have to pay full price for the unit in order to be eligible.  the rep on the phone quoted $628 for tivo premier with lifetime subscription.

lifetime is "product lifetime".  you're only eligible for transfer and upgrade discounts for three years.  that is what they consider a fair lifetime for the product.  in other words, if your unit breaks, and it's been longer than three years, you have to buy another lifetime subscription with your new unit.

the guy recommended that i find a "series 2" on ebay that was still covered by it's agreement, then i could get the cost break on the lifetime subscription for the new unit.

Product Lifetime Subscription includes a subscription to the TiVo service for the useable life of the TiVo DVR you buy – not the life of the subscriber – and may not be transferred to another TiVo DVR. A Product Lifetime Subscription accompanies the TiVo DVR it is associated with in case of ownership transfer of that TiVo DVR. For more information on Product Lifetime Subscriptions, please refer to the TiVo Service Agreement. Of course, hardware products don't last forever and their lifespan will vary. TiVo makes no warranties or representations as to the expected lifetime of the TiVo DVR (aside from the manufacturer's Limited Warranty).

so at it's an estimated $17.45 per month if I pay retail for the unit and subscription over the product lifetime of 3 years.  i'm still undecided.  roku appears to be a way better value even without the DVR, but i would still manage to save some by cancelling UVerse and going with antenna and Tivo

[KnuckleBuckett]

Tivo is damned expensive.

[ober]

FYI.  i called them today.  the lifetime subscription is still available.  you have to pay full price for the unit in order to be eligible.  the rep on the phone quoted $628 for tivo premier with lifetime subscription.

lifetime is "product lifetime".  you're only eligible for transfer and upgrade discounts for three years.  that is what they consider a fair lifetime for the product.  in other words, if your unit breaks, and it's been longer than three years, you have to buy another lifetime subscription with your new unit.

the guy recommended that i find a "series 2" on ebay that was still covered by it's agreement, then i could get the cost break on the lifetime subscription for the new unit.

Product Lifetime Subscription includes a subscription to the TiVo service for the useable life of the TiVo DVR you buy – not the life of the subscriber – and may not be transferred to another TiVo DVR. A Product Lifetime Subscription accompanies the TiVo DVR it is associated with in case of ownership transfer of that TiVo DVR. For more information on Product Lifetime Subscriptions, please refer to the TiVo Service Agreement. Of course, hardware products don't last forever and their lifespan will vary. TiVo makes no warranties or representations as to the expected lifetime of the TiVo DVR (aside from the manufacturer's Limited Warranty).

so at it's an estimated $17.45 per month if I pay retail for the unit and subscription over the product lifetime of 3 years.  i'm still undecided.  roku appears to be a way better value even without the DVR, but i would still manage to save some by cancelling UVerse and going with antenna and Tivo

That's not bad, considering I just paid $550 after taxes with a wireless adapter included for the Premiere plus half off the lifetime subscription.  And yeah, the 'lifetime' subscription stays with the actual product.  I'd sell you my series 2 box but I think we're going to use it until it completely dies.

[ober]

FYI: they have sent me a few 'welcome to premiere' emails so far and I found this in one of them:

TiVo has always give you the ability to take total control live and recorded TV with pause, rewind, fast-forward and slo-mo. Now we've added a one-click 30-second scan feature so you can conveniently skip those parts of your shows you’d rather not sit through.

[KnuckleBuckett]

Looks like my wish list isn't all that demanding.

[ober]

So I hooked it up last night and I think I can knock a few more things off your wishlist. 

1) Very snappy.  I have no complaints about the speed of the system at all.
2) External storage.  There is an external SATA port right on the back so you can hook up external drives and immediately add storage capability.
3) The aforementioned 30 second skip.

There is one thing I'm bummed about, we can't really use the new interface that they have because that's only for HD tvs.  Not that it's a big deal, really.  It's not like it really changes functionality a whole lot.

I do love that you can add Netflix directly to the Now Playing list.

Also, when you have more than one box on the network, not only can you transfer shows between them, but it will also pick up a show from one box wherever you paused it and only transfer from that point going forward.  Pretty sweet if you need to move from one room to another.  And transferring shows couldn't be easier.  It adds the other device as an item in the now playing list and you can just browse it like a PC (we've had my computer connected to it for a long time) and transfer shows as easy as pie.

The last thing I'll mention for now is the ability to transfer season passes.  That couldn't have been simpler easier.  All you have to do is have both of them connected to the internet and log into your tivo account on their website.  Select the season passes, hit 'copy to other box' and BOOM, done.  Fucking fantastic.

The other cool thing is that now I have the capacity to record 405 hours of SD tv (or 47 HD hours).  I'm stoked!