Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

[Mike]

What makes the big bang a creditable scientific theory is that from that theory predictions can be made, experiments derived to test the predictions, tests carried out, and the theory refined in light of the new information.

Scientific theories aren't "this is the truth" things, they are "this theory best explains XYZ to the best of our current understanding".

It is perfectly reasonable to think that the research into the origins of the universe might just lead us to God.  Of course it might lead us away also.

What isn't reasonable is to say that ID is a scientific theory as you can't come up with predictions based off of it, or tests to prove/disprove those predictions, etc.

ID is a belief.  As a belief there is nothing wrong with it, it is a belief I personally hold.

[Steve]

You can be an atheist and still think people are allowed to be religious.  It works out pretty well for me.

technically that makes you agnostic. At least, i think so. I was atheist but over time i became agnostic. Not because my beliefs changed, just my view of others beliefs.

[Mike]

IIRC:  atheist:  There is no God.  Agnostic:  There may or may not be a God.

[Steve]

Basically yea. So if you believe there is no god, how can you believe that the beliefs of those who disagree are valid or make any sense?

[Mike]

Basically yea. So if you believe there is no god, how can you believe that the beliefs of those who disagree are valid or make any sense?

I don't believe in Shamanism but that doesn't stop me from believing that other people are allowed to believe in Shamanism.

[Govtcheez]

Basically yea. So if you believe there is no god, how can you believe that the beliefs of those who disagree are valid or make any sense?

I didn't say they make any sense.

If we want to get real specific, I don't believe there is a God.  I believe there is an even smaller chance that that God, if he exists, is the Christian God.  I don't feel there is any evidence that there is one, and so I don't believe in that anymore than I would anything else that I feel has no basis in reality.

I feel that religion can be a good thing in people's lives, but I think very frequently it is taken in a destructive direction.  I don't believe their beliefs "make sense" any more than they feel about my beliefs, but I think their beliefs are as valid as anything else as long as it doesn't impinge on the beliefs and rights of others.

You can be an atheist without being a militant asshole.  You can be a christian without being one too.

[Steve]

Thats outside the scope. I'm comparing the definition of agnostic and athiest. I dont see how atheist can cross the line to the definition of agnostic without becoming agnostic.

Edit: good point cheez. though we can agree most atheist are assholes  Probably where agnostic came into play

[Govtcheez]

Most people who define themselves as people by saying "I'm an atheist" are, but so are most people that define themselves with any one word label are, too.

[Steve]

Fair enough. Anytime someone asks my position i just sigh cause i know it will go one of two ways. Either they agree with me and its a simple "cool" or whatever or they are religious and feel they need to defend their beliefs or "save me" which is just annoying.

Then i have to get into my whole religion is a coping mechanism and such and then im an ass somehow lol.

[Govtcheez]

Whenever people have tried to defend their beliefs to me, I try to make it clear that I think it's a personal thing.  If they're combative about it I'll either argue with them or walk away, depending on how insistent or jerk-ish they're being.  Fortunately that stuff almost never comes up in real life since most adults seem to understand that no one gives a shit what moon god you worship.

[charlie]

I think your definitions are wrong, RoD.

Atheist means that the person doesn't believe there is a higher power. That doesn't mean 100%, it just means that is what they believe. You're still a Christian if you're 99% sure that the Christian God exists, right?

I always thought Agnostic meant the person believed in some sort of higher power, but not one in particular.

Even if Agnostic means that the person isn't sure if there is a god or not, that's different than the Atheist who is 99% sure that there isn't.

So Atheists can believe there is no higher power, but still hold out for the possibility (however slight) that there is one. I believe that's actually what most atheists believe.

[Govtcheez]

> I always thought Agnostic meant the person believed in some sort of higher power, but not one in particular.

That's a Deist.

> I believe that's actually what most atheists believe.

Why?

[Steve]

I think your definitions are wrong, RoD.

Atheist means that the person doesn't believe there is a higher power. That doesn't mean 100%, it just means that is what they believe. You're still a Christian if you're 99% sure that the Christian God exists, right?

No, your not. You either believe something or you dont. Your views allow someone to never have to choose, THAT is a cop out.

[Govtcheez]

Beliefs in things that are that big and complicated are far too specific and individual to put everything into neat little containers.

[micah]

Atheist means that the person doesn't believe there is a higher power. That doesn't mean 100%, it just means that is what they believe. You're still a Christian if you're 99% sure that the Christian God exists, right?

I don't think that's all that accurate.  You have to be 100% certain that there is a God and that he had a son (who was fully God and fully human) and that this son was killed as a sacrifice for your sins and then rose from the dead soon after.  If you only believe that 99% then you are just someone who attends a Christian church but you are not a Christian.

I would think that if you deny there is a God but then sorta 1% think there might be, you're not a very good atheist.  You gotta stick with your convictions