EntropySink
Technical & Scientific => Hardware => Topic started by: ahluka on February 01, 2006, 11:49:37 AM
-
I thought this was best posted here since I don't know if it's a hardware or software problem...
Let me explain. When my PC has just been turned on, it runs fine - just as you expect it would. It does this until I've finished playing a game (or occasionally when I'm ~30 mins into playing a game), then it decides to slow down, and I mean noticably. If I'm playing a game at the time, I loose ~20 FPS. It's like it's decided to start loading stuff off the hard drive, except it isn't.
The same thing happens if I'm not playing a game, it just seems to take longer (after having been on for about 40 mins). Everything I do takes longer - every time I load something, it hangs.
When I mentioned the game part of it to a mate he said it might be because I've only got 512MB RAM (he had the same (almost) problem with games hanging mid-play when he'd just bought a 6800GT). He upgraded pretty sharpish to 1GB and found it really helped.
So I've ordered another 512mb stick, should be here on friday. I just hope it's the problem - TBH the fact that my pc just slows down for the rest of the time it's on doesn't sound like a lack of RAM problem... does it?
-
Moved to Hardware.... and I'd suspect your PSU is on the way out or your CPU is throttling because of heat. Either way, sounds like you need some additional cooling.
-
What Ober said - but more memory will always help. 512 is on the low side these days.
-
Moved to Hardware.... and I'd suspect your PSU is on the way out or your CPU is throttling because of heat. Either way, sounds like you need some additional cooling.
We're talking more fans right? Water cooling is probably OTT.
-
More fans... but do some research and make sure you're getting the right pressure inside your case. One of my biggest problems right now is that I don't have enough intake... so my exhaust fan is pretty much choking... and hence not pushing enough air out... I need to fix that, but I usually end up just removing the side of the case if I play games for more than 2 hours.
-
Well since I'm skint the only thing I can try to help it is to remove the side of the case, but with our dogs the air is excessively hairy / dusty, which could be a bitch. I had to remove a fair amount of shit from the fan when I installed my GPU last week.
-
Cleaning fans/case should be a routine procedure... at least every week or every other week in a situation like yours. My office stays very clean, so I only clean my filters on my intake about once a month, if that.
I would try removing the case and pushing your system to see if that alleviates some of the issues or not.
Although... now that I re-read the origional thread... It could be that you're maxing out your RAM and your computer just start using your HD as a page file.
Here's another way to test that: Get your system up to the point where you're seeing tons of HD activity and slow-downs. When you do, stop and reboot. If everything goes back to normal for the same amount of time, you need more RAM. If you reboot and are almost immediately back in the same situation, it's something else.
And when I say reboot, leave it off for a good 30-45 seconds and it wouldn't hurt to unplug it for that amount of time. That'll give the RAM a chance to lose it's power and clear itself. Otherwise, it'll still hold a bunch of junk if you just reboot it.
-
Is there any possibility of Spyware or can you trace the memory usage to an application? Maybe there's a memory leak in something you're running. More RAM is always a good thing but if you've got a greedy app you'll still be upset (it'll just take longer).
Check your memory manager and see if something is hogging up your resources. If you've got a database running (like SQL Server) that kind of thing can happen.
-
>>That'll give the RAM a chance to lose it's power and clear itself. Otherwise, it'll still hold a bunch of junk if you just reboot it.
Dude, it's volatile memory. Nothing stays in there, even if you only soft reboot. Even the 3 fingered salute will clear it out.
-
>>That'll give the RAM a chance to lose it's power and clear itself. Otherwise, it'll still hold a bunch of junk if you just reboot it.
Dude, it's volatile memory. Nothing stays in there, even if you only soft reboot. Even the 3 fingered salute will clear it out.
the power provided by the board when the computer is off is enough to keep memory in the ram. Thats why anytime a company does a test on a stick of ram the ram is removed from the board completely for at least 30 seconds to ensure its completely cleared out.
-
To be honest I didn't read the entire thread. Just wanted to respond to ober :P
Removing the side of a case isn't really a great idea as the intake and exhaust should be designed to flow air over the CPU. If you remove the side you allow more air to absorb heat but at the same time it's not being circulated well. Of course if you do what I used to and have a big fan right next to it sucking the air away thats a different story :)
-
the power provided by the board when the computer is off is enough to keep memory in the ram. Thats why anytime a company does a test on a stick of ram the ram is removed from the board completely for at least 30 seconds to ensure its completely cleared out.
There is no power provided by the board when the computer is off, unless you're talking about a) residual power in the PSU caps (10 seconds tops) or b) BBU for the CMOS.
Seriously, sometimes I wonder about you guys. :dunno:
edit>> Random linky. There's no way for dynamic RAM to keep data unless the refresh is running.
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/ram/typesDRAM-c.html
edit2>> 'Nuther linky.
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/ram1.htm
-
Seriously, sometimes I wonder about you guys. :dunno:
Don't look at me I know RoD is full of it :P
-
actually on second thought robs right. I was rear ended today my laps in intelligence isnt entirely my fault this time lol. As for taking the side of the case off, mikes right. If you dont have an outside fan then you'll just have higher ambient air temps with the side off
-
Ok... so I'll admit defeat. I guess I was given false information from someone in the past. I was just under the impression that there was enough residual power still in the system at that point to keep the RAM alive for a brief period.
As far as removing the case cover, I do know how that works, and I did used to have a fan running on my old computer... but I don't on my new one. There is a central air vent very close by so that moves air, plus I have a window right there as well, and air always blows in because it's to the west.... so suffice to say that the air is not stagnant by the case.
-
Ok so you know but lets make sure to give the slow people (like ahluka) all the info :)
-
Sorry... I should have made that more clear.
-
It must be an overheating problem. The 1GB has made no difference to that amount of time it takes to come to a slow down - I was reading that Intel processors "slow themselves down" when they reach high temperatures. If I feel the side of my case it's noticably warm. I'm gonna dig out an old office fan we've got around here somewhere and open the side of my case; one question though...
Since the air isn't circulating at all (OK so I've only got an intake, laugh) would I be better to place the fan at a distance and an angle to blow the air over & past the processor?
Please don't bash me :(
-
>>Please don't bash me
You do know it's all in good fun, right?
-
>>Please don't bash me
You do know it's all in good fun, right?
Yeah I know, but I can be a bit of an asshole sometimes so I don't blame half of you :)
-
I think we scared your mate off though.
-
So anyway, I'd need a new case + the fans to solve this problem. Except I own exactly £1.54 so that ain't happening. I guess I could ask my parents but I kinda already owe them > £300 and they're not really up on me spending most of my spare time on my PC as it is.
If I dropped out of college and got a job (or even if I went through Uni then got a job) there's nothing around here. I guess the closest place I'd get a job is Cardiff, or possibly Swansea, but getting there's a whole big bus thing and the taste of public transport makes me vomit.
Sure, it's pretty, but south wales sucks ass. :(
-
I think we scared your mate off though.
Yeah he's funny with forums - he's never really up for a laugh (it seems)
I say it's his ginger-ness.
http://www.zarins.me.uk/4598/10247.html
(This'll go down well on Monday...)
-
yet another thread down the shitter despite its original potential
-
It must be an overheating problem. The 1GB has made no difference to that amount of time it takes to come to a slow down - I was reading that Intel processors "slow themselves down" when they reach high temperatures. If I feel the side of my case it's noticably warm. I'm gonna dig out an old office fan we've got around here somewhere and open the side of my case; one question though...
Since the air isn't circulating at all (OK so I've only got an intake, laugh) would I be better to place the fan at a distance and an angle to blow the air over & past the processor?
Please don't bash me :(
Generally speaking you want to setup fans to suck air away from the CPU. This effectivly gives the heat a bigger volume. By blowing air towards the CPU you are in affect trying to cool down the existing air. That is a fight you'll lose.
-
I'm not sure if that's necessarily true, Mike. My Zalman heatsink/120mm fan blows air directly onto the CPU, as do most heatsink fans. By blowing air directly down on the CPU, it blows out and away creating a flower effect... it pushes air down onto the heatsink, increasing air flow through and away from the CPU. So my suggestion, as long as the fan is fairly small and can be directly fairly accurately, is to blow air directly on the CPU. Again, that's not a great way to do it, but it should be effective. I would say that moving air in any direction in the case would give you at least SOME of the desired effect, especially if you're opening it up to do so.
Sidenote: I'd rather have an exhaust fan than an intake fan.
-
Well there is a difference between the heatsink fan and a fan next to the computer. At least with the way my heatsink is designed there is a lot of "spots" for the air to get "trapped" (can't think of better words atm). But when you're talking about a much larger volume that you have when you are talking about the interior of a case blowing becomes less affective.
You are right though that whatever you do with have some desired affect.
And ober I hope your fan is blowing on the heatsink and not on the CPU :P
-
It is.... that may have been a little vague. :p
-
the reason the HSF can blow onto the heatsink is because there is ery little ambient air in between the HS and the HSF. Therefore its easy for the fan to cool that air which in turn cools the HS. In cases where the HS is not in the equation your better to exhaust.
-
Ok I've got something to admit - it may have been pretty obvious anyway. I've never taken the heatsink off a CPU before :o
There's like a 4 pronged plastic shroud that's latched onto the side of the heatsink and it has two levers on top, which make it push down on the whole thing to keep it in place. I can't get it off :(
Oh yeah and when I pull the levers up, the heatsink & fan block moves around freely and lifts up a bit - this is normal, right?
It's in dire need of a clean too and I've given up playing games for the time being.
-
Umm... it would help if you told us what heatsink/fan and CPU you're dealing with. They're often different for Intel vs. AMD, stock vs. after-market. I'd suggest that if you can get it to move freely when you release the levers, you're 90% of the way there. I'm guessing you haven't completely opened up the levers or you need to twist or turn the entire unit to free it.
HOWEVER, you really need to be careful when doing ANYTHING with that sort of stuff. There needs to be some thermal compound between the CPU and heatsink, and everytime you disconnect the two, you're hurting the bond that is created between the two elements by the compound. So you should really only pull the 2 apart when you plan to put it all back together with fresh compound (Artic Silver 5 is my recommendation). I suggest alcohol rubs to remove the old compound, and make sure you get it very clean. And the new compound should never be more than a dot, since pushing the CPU and heatsink together will cause the compound to spread and pour over the sides and into the contacts of the CPU if you have too much (AKA VERY BAD).
You really need to do research on this type of work... it's not something that should be taken lightly because you'll only end up hurting the hardware or ruining it if you screw it up.
-
dont scare him ober lol. Get a screwbriver, some superglue, a roll of duct tape and needle nose pliers and meet me in the comp room, its easy!
-
You forgot the bubblegum