Author Topic: The AZ Shooting & Gun Control  (Read 9766 times)

Steve

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The AZ Shooting & Gun Control
« on: January 25, 2011, 10:12:17 AM »
Why is it that the second someone uses a gun to commit a horrible crime, everyone grabs a microphone and screams about gun control? Now I will be the first to say that Arizona is being too relaxed with their gun laws. Every healthy, law abiding citizen in this country should be allowed to carry a firearm, open or concealed, for their protection. However, they need to be granted a permit or license through the state that goes into the database so that the police know you have it, they know which gun you have, and your fingerprints are bound to those ballistics. This also helps filter out the mentally ill. Arizona allowing people to just carry is a terrible idea.

With that said, criminals don't give a shit about gun laws either way. The general public thinks that laws in place and "No Weapons Allowed" signs work and everyone listens, but they don't. To stricken gun control is to disarm the law abiding public, scary notion.

The fact is that guns do not kill people, people kill people. To say guns kill people is like saying that pencils make spelling mistakes. The world is scary, absolutely no doubt about that, but the public goes into a fear panic and screams gun control. Do people not realise that the police are under NO obligation to protect them? An officer can walk right past a robbery in progress, assault, even a homicide and do NOTHING, and that is his right so says the supreme court. Our citizens need to wake up and realise the only one with a duty to protect them is THEM.

/rant
hey ethic if you and i were both courting lily allen..... oh wait, which one of us has a relationship that lasted more than the bus ride home?

Steve

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Re: The AZ Shooting & Gun Control
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2011, 10:15:27 AM »
Also how is gun control going to stop people like laughner (spelling?) from picking up a gun and shooting a congresswoman? It's not! The man is mentally ill! Was he following Sarah Palin? No, probably not, but would he have stopped and said "wait, guns are illegal!"....NO.

/rant
hey ethic if you and i were both courting lily allen..... oh wait, which one of us has a relationship that lasted more than the bus ride home?

KnuckleBuckett

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Re: The AZ Shooting & Gun Control
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2011, 10:25:32 AM »
micah and I have been whining about this for years in here. 

Govtcheez

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Re: The AZ Shooting & Gun Control
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2011, 10:34:40 AM »
> Arizona allowing people to just carry is a terrible idea.

That doesn't seem to be the case.  AFAIK it's an open carry state, but you still need to pass the background check.  Loughner was never officially declared mentally incompetent by a court, so he was legally allowed to buy the gun.

I'm pro-gun control in theory, but it is always implemented in such a dumb way that I can't really define myself as such. 

Steve

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Re: The AZ Shooting & Gun Control
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2011, 10:35:28 AM »
micah and I have been whining about this for years in here. 

Yea i know and i used to stay out of these debates but in the last two years i have seen how these activists have begun to affect my day to day and have been getting pissed off. For example there is a local activist here who is gaining a following on his "Glocks Kill" campaign. As a devoted Glock fanatic i despise this crap. Someone puts a 30 round magazine into a semi-automatic pistol developed for law and military (originally with a 10 or 15 round mag, mind you) and uses it to commit a crime and suddenly a anti-glock group is born
hey ethic if you and i were both courting lily allen..... oh wait, which one of us has a relationship that lasted more than the bus ride home?

Govtcheez

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Re: The AZ Shooting & Gun Control
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2011, 10:37:11 AM »
There are anti-everything groups.  There has been no big push for increasing gun control in years and years.

Steve

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Re: The AZ Shooting & Gun Control
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2011, 10:39:58 AM »
> Arizona allowing people to just carry is a terrible idea.

That doesn't seem to be the case.  AFAIK it's an open carry state, but you still need to pass the background check.  Loughner was never officially declared mentally incompetent by a court, so he was legally allowed to buy the gun.

I'm pro-gun control in theory, but it is always implemented in such a dumb way that I can't really define myself as such. 

It is an OC state, but they allow residents legally owning a pistol to conceal without a license, as well. The court may never have been afforded an opportunity to declare him mentally ill, but the state has a responsibility to filter those who can conceal. For example here in Michigan when you apply for a CCW you have to take a course, get fingerprinted, etc etc. Michigan randomly selects a percentage of applicants every month to come before a panel. This random selection is specifically in place to help identify reasons not to grant the conceal permit.

It is random to try and keep it honest, but personally i think we should all have to go through it. I know someone right now who has three mental illnesses and never takes his medication. His application was granted without a panel, and i have been trying to get that revoked for months. When he first got the gun he shot up an arby's and taco bell at 3am and I turned him in. Ballistics was inconclusive and the case went nowhere.
hey ethic if you and i were both courting lily allen..... oh wait, which one of us has a relationship that lasted more than the bus ride home?

Govtcheez

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Re: The AZ Shooting & Gun Control
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2011, 10:42:17 AM »
So you think we shouldn't have more gun control but are listing reasons we should?

Steve

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Re: The AZ Shooting & Gun Control
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2011, 10:44:44 AM »
So you think we shouldn't have more gun control but are listing reasons we should?

No. I'm irritated with the extremeists that want to ban guns and disarm our citizens. I'm against anything that takes that right away from the majority, but licensing should be in place for purchase and carry with mental illness screening. We do not grant carry or purchase permits to people with Domestic Violence, Assualt, Drug, or Felony history, so why do we not check that the person is mentally ill?
hey ethic if you and i were both courting lily allen..... oh wait, which one of us has a relationship that lasted more than the bus ride home?

Govtcheez

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Re: The AZ Shooting & Gun Control
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2011, 10:47:04 AM »
> No. I'm irritated with the extremeists that want to ban guns and disarm our citizens.

No one with any power is planning to do this.  Other people are allowed to have opinions and lobby for them, whether they're stupid or not

> why do we not check that the person is mentally ill?

In the AZ case they specifically said they did, but since he hadn't been declared mentally ill by a doctor, it didn't show up.

Steve

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Re: The AZ Shooting & Gun Control
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2011, 10:52:08 AM »
>>No one with any power is planning to do this.  Other people are allowed to have opinions and lobby for them, whether they're stupid or not

never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups. People will blindly follow anyone who inspires them or appears to be in a position of any authority. Look how many people idolise Sarah Palin, we all know she's a fucking idiot but they don't.

>>In the AZ case they specifically said they did, but since he hadn't been declared mentally ill by a doctor, it didn't show up.

I must have missed this somewhere because i didn't hear (read) that. I'm usually not around to see the news on TV though so i rely in the paper and Google News. If that is the case, it's going to happen. The fact is if he really wanted to get a gun and shoot her he would have regardless. I am happy that the police/state made the effort of prevention. Anything more would become invasive or counter productive.

Security is needed, but like in the world of technology you reach a point where it is too much and becomes invasive and hindering.
hey ethic if you and i were both courting lily allen..... oh wait, which one of us has a relationship that lasted more than the bus ride home?

Govtcheez

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Re: The AZ Shooting & Gun Control
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2011, 10:54:32 AM »
I don't disagree with it, I was just correcting your statement

Govtcheez

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Steve

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Re: The AZ Shooting & Gun Control
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2011, 11:05:01 AM »
I don't disagree with it, I was just correcting your statement

I appreciate that. Thanks for the link, i learned something today.
hey ethic if you and i were both courting lily allen..... oh wait, which one of us has a relationship that lasted more than the bus ride home?

kermi3

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Re: The AZ Shooting & Gun Control
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2011, 12:19:08 PM »
I'm not going to dive all teh way into this now, I don't have time...

First and foremost - I think this killing demostrated the pitiful state of our mental health system...

But this is the reason the conversation is worth having:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Compare us to other G20/1st world countries...
govtcheez03:  i kind of look for it - i seek out stupidity and annoy it until it either gets better, gets banned, or goes away on its own