Topic: GOP Presidential debate

[incognito]

> High taxes, etc

God I'm sick of hearing this.  Tax rates are lower right now than they have been for a very long time.

So? Still too high for me. If the government weren't so involved in people's lives we wouldn't need such big government and taxes would be lower still.

Am specially bothered by all the taxing by the Fed. More government involved. Taking us the same way of Japan.

[Govtcheez]

> Am specially bothered by all the taxing by the Fed.

The federal government or "the Fed" as in the Federal Reserve Bank

[incognito]

The Federal reserve.

Though I also think that if the federal government was thinned out we'd be able to pay less taxes. Don't even get me started on my state and municpal government.

[Govtcheez]

The Fed isn't part of the Government and can't levy taxes

[incognito]

The Fed isn't part of the Government and can't levy taxes

Well in a way they do. Every time they print inorganic currency [which they have been doing at an alarming rate] (for their bailouts or to buy treasury bonds) the value of the dollar is impacted and thus you have less buying power/less money in your savings account, in essence a tax.
Which in itself may be even worse, it's taxation without representation , it doesn't have to get approved by anyone.  Which is why i am in favor of abolishing the Federal Reserve or have some sort of regulating mechanism.

[Govtcheez]

Diluting someone's buying power is not the same as a tax.  If you're using that logic, then inflation or a wage cut or getting laid off are de facto taxes.  It's simply not true.

[incognito]

Diluting someone's buying power is not the same as a tax.  If you're using that logic, then inflation or a wage cut or getting laid off are de facto taxes.  It's simply not true.

When someone else is doing it and you have not power over it; it's akin to to a tax (as i said this may be even worse since you don't have representation), you may call it by a different name but in essence it has the same effect on my pockets, which is all i care about. I use the term "tax" purposely to draw attention to the problem. A lot people seem to overlook the impact of all this quantitative easing and the like on our pockets.

PS; a great deal of inflation IS caused by inorganic monies (Fed printing money). You just watch and see the effects of Bernanke's policies in a few months; there is a HUGE possibility of an inflation problem. 

[Govtcheez]

You can't just make up a definition for a word because it doesn't fit your argument.  Whether or not you agree with QE or what the fed does or want us on the gold standard, what the Fed does is NOT a tax.

[incognito]

You can't just make up a definition for a word because it doesn't fit your argument.  Whether or not you agree with QE or what the fed does or want us on the gold standard, what the Fed does is NOT a tax.

I disagree, it is a tax; taxation without representation.
You'll find tons of economists agreeing with me.

http://www.moneynews.com/SeanHyman/currency-taxes/2010/11/01/id/375492

What is a tax? a compulsory contribution from you to the government. Exactly what printing money is.

From google:

A compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions

It has the SAME effects as a "tax" or maybe even worse.

It is a tax; it just so happens to be unregulated or doesn't get voted upon - unconstitutional

[Steve]

You can't just make up a definition for a word because it doesn't fit your argument.  Whether or not you agree with QE or what the fed does or want us on the gold standard, what the Fed does is NOT a tax.

I disagree, it is a tax; taxation without representation.
You'll find tons of economists agreeing with me.

http://www.moneynews.com/SeanHyman/currency-taxes/2010/11/01/id/375492

What is a tax? a compulsory contribution from you to the government. Exactly what printing money is.

From google:

A compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions

It has the SAME effects as a "tax" or maybe even worse.

It is a tax; it just so happens to be unregulated or doesn't get voted upon - unconstitutional

I'm inclined to agree....

[micah]

I don't really care about this argument, but since I like arguing you with you cheeze, i feel compelled to chip in and point out that you supported my statement in a previous thread that the state lottery is a tax on poor people.  ipsum facto you're contradicting yourself.

[Govtcheez]

That's a good point.  It's not a tax in the traditional sense, but the money does go to the government and it does unfairly affect poor people.  In my mind, there's not really a difference between that and a cigarette tax.

edit: When buying lotto tickets, you're giving money to the government.  If the Fed prints more money, you're not actually giving any more money to the government.

[Steve]

How can you count the lottery? That is completely optional, they don't have to play the damn lottery.

[Govtcheez]

There are all sorts of taxes levied on things that are "optional" - cigarettes, gas, anything with sales tax, etc.

[incognito]

How can you count the lottery? That is completely optional, they don't have to play the damn lottery.

Agree with Steve at least you can opt out when it comes to the lottery.