Poll

Where do you stand on these issues?

AGW - Man-made global warming is real and is affecting our environment
10 (18.2%)
AGW - The earth is not warming, or if it is it's a natural cycle
3 (5.5%)
----------------------------------
0 (0%)
Vaccines - Vaccines are dangerous and can cause Autism or other serious problems
1 (1.8%)
Vaccines - Vaccines are generally safe and effective
11 (20%)
----------------------------------
1 (1.8%)
GMOs - Genetically modified food is potentially dangerous and should be avoided
2 (3.6%)
GMOs - Genetically modified food is the same or better than non-GMO food
5 (9.1%)
----------------------------------
1 (1.8%)
Fracking - Natural gas fracking is dangerous and should not be promoted
6 (10.9%)
Fracking - Natural gas fracking is generally safe and acceptable with proper safeguards
3 (5.5%)
----------------------------------
0 (0%)
Nuclear - Nuclear energy is unsafe and should not be used as an alternative energy source
0 (0%)
Nuclear - Nuclear energy is relatively safe and should be used as an alternative energy source
12 (21.8%)

Total Members Voted: 12

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Author Topic: POTD: 2014-01-13 (issues)  (Read 12992 times)

Mike

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Re: POTD: 2014-01-13
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2014, 10:31:00 PM »
I don't do the flu vaccines and I don't really see a need for kids to get them.

For me the GMO issue is basically "doesn't sound like a great idea and if I can I'll stay away from them but I don't know for sure".  Global warming is micah and someone else (I was expecting it to be you).
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charlie

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Re: POTD: 2014-01-13
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2014, 10:35:24 PM »
This forum has liberals, science/technology fans and cynics. Not that surprising.

Also, vaccines don't cause autism, but deciding not to get the flu shot is no big deal. Of course, you apparently voted that you think they are dangerous and can cause severe problems. ;)
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kermi3

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Re: POTD: 2014-01-13
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2014, 10:40:05 PM »
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Quote from: Betazep on January 13, 2014, 06:03:40 PM
Please tell me you vaccinated your kids at least? The diseases are worse even if a chance of autism exists.

Dude...I was gonna come over there and kick your ass.  Maybe we don't like that the flu vaccine doesn't always work but we all know whole vaccine and autism link is bogus...We all know that right?  It was based on one article...that's been retracted...and there's no support for it whatsoever.  We know that right?

I mean, I disagree with some of the others (global warmer denying?  Really?)  But the vaccines?  I haven't read the detailed research on this one in a while, but I'm happy to go find it if people need convincing.  Only danger is allergic reaction....speaking of which....Obes - with all the food allergies, could your kids get the vaccines?

I suck at getting the flu vaccine though - my step dad found out I didn't have it over break and taddled to my mom...had to get it on Tuesday so mom would shutup  :suicide:
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Betazep

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Re: POTD: 2014-01-13
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2014, 10:56:34 PM »
Quote from: Jake on January 13, 2014, 10:24:35 PM
I'm quite surprised that the GMO and global warming are as split as they are on this liberal fucking forum ;)

Many hippie liberals think GMOs are bad.  (and the poll is kind of poorly stated... GMOs are genetically modified organisms which transcend only food) They are actually superb at keeping mass quantities of humanity alive and there is no indication that GMO based food is in ANY way bad for you.  There have been a LOT of very good studies about GMO crops, and not just ones started by Monsanto.  They had horrible business practices that impacted many farmers... but the problem with them isn't GMOs... the problem is greed, money and power.  You don't get that by searching for "the truth about GMO's."  You get a lot of poorly conducted *scientific* studies on the efficacy of genetically modified foods.

I try listen to real science... and real studies (double blind, peer reviewed... taking into account negative bias).  Most people do not take the time to actually review these kinds of things.  They throw their trust in the first article that confirms their suspicion that science is bad and organic, natural, I-built-a-garden-in-my-backyard-and-planted-seeds-that-passed-through-my-colon-while-listening-to-Mozart crops are God's gift to food perfection.

Take 10 minutes to read this blog... he provides links to the studies... maybe read those too if you have the time.  http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/06/17/bad-science-about-gmos-it-reminds-me-of-the-antivaccine-movement-revisited/

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charlie

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Re: POTD: 2014-01-13
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2014, 11:09:41 PM »
:devil:

Those others polls were way too wussy.
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micah

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Re: POTD: 2014-01-13
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2014, 11:17:47 PM »
for what its worth, my whole family go the flu vaccines early this fall and the baby still got the flu.  That said, the rest of us didn't so  :dunno:

Quote from: Jake on January 13, 2014, 10:12:35 PM
I guess I'm just not a fan of flu vaccine...the few times I got it as a kid I still always ended up with the flu. I don't know if it helps or not, but I'd just rather go without it. And I wont make my kids get it. I haven't had the flu vaccine since I was in elementary school and I don't remember the last time I've had the flu.
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Betazep

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Re: POTD: 2014-01-13
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2014, 11:21:14 PM »
Quote from: micah on January 13, 2014, 11:17:47 PM
for what its worth, my whole family go the flu vaccines early this fall and the baby still got the flu.  That said, the rest of us didn't so  :dunno:

Quote from: Jake on January 13, 2014, 10:12:35 PM
I guess I'm just not a fan of flu vaccine...the few times I got it as a kid I still always ended up with the flu. I don't know if it helps or not, but I'd just rather go without it. And I wont make my kids get it. I haven't had the flu vaccine since I was in elementary school and I don't remember the last time I've had the flu.

LINK  :)
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micah

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Re: POTD: 2014-01-13
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2014, 11:32:26 PM »
Quote from: http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/infectious_diseases/influenza_flu_85,P00625/
People who have had the flu shot tend to have milder symptoms if they contract the flu.

This is (anecdotally) true, even though Harper got the flu, her only notable symptom to us was a fever.  The doctor confirmed the flu with a deep nose swab and prescribed tamaflu but she remained otherwise content and didn't seem to be in an flu-like distress (this pic was her, happy as a clam, at the doctor.)  She's was a little extra tired and cuddly for a couple days and a little cranky at time, but otherwise you wouldn't know she was sick.
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charlie

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Re: POTD: 2014-01-13
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2014, 11:37:21 PM »
Show off. :p
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Mike

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Re: POTD: 2014-01-13
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2014, 11:42:07 PM »
Quote from: Betazep on January 13, 2014, 10:56:34 PM
Quote from: Jake on January 13, 2014, 10:24:35 PM
I'm quite surprised that the GMO and global warming are as split as they are on this liberal fucking forum ;)

Many hippie liberals think GMOs are bad.  (and the poll is kind of poorly stated... GMOs are genetically modified organisms which transcend only food) They are actually superb at keeping mass quantities of humanity alive and there is no indication that GMO based food is in ANY way bad for you.  There have been a LOT of very good studies about GMO crops, and not just ones started by Monsanto.  They had horrible business practices that impacted many farmers... but the problem with them isn't GMOs... the problem is greed, money and power.  You don't get that by searching for "the truth about GMO's."  You get a lot of poorly conducted *scientific* studies on the efficacy of genetically modified foods.

I try listen to real science... and real studies (double blind, peer reviewed... taking into account negative bias).  Most people do not take the time to actually review these kinds of things.  They throw their trust in the first article that confirms their suspicion that science is bad and organic, natural, I-built-a-garden-in-my-backyard-and-planted-seeds-that-passed-through-my-colon-while-listening-to-Mozart crops are God's gift to food perfection.

Take 10 minutes to read this blog... he provides links to the studies... maybe read those too if you have the time.  http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/06/17/bad-science-about-gmos-it-reminds-me-of-the-antivaccine-movement-revisited/



Good luck finding studies about food/nutrition that don't have some shady connections.
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Jake

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Re: POTD: 2014-01-13
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2014, 11:57:04 PM »
Quote from: Mike on January 13, 2014, 10:31:00 PM
I don't do the flu vaccines and I don't really see a need for kids to get them.

For me the GMO issue is basically "doesn't sound like a great idea and if I can I'll stay away from them but I don't know for sure".  Global warming is micah and someone else (I was expecting it to be you).

why would you expect that?



;)
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kermi3

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Re: POTD: 2014-01-13
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2014, 12:05:49 AM »
We've been genetically modifying food for 1000s of years. Now we just do it more efficiently.


From what I understand the problem with the flu vaccine is that they're basically guessing which strains of flu will be major each year...so they only make you immune to 3-4 strands a year - if you stumble onto a strain that you're not immunized to...sucks.
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charlie

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Re: POTD: 2014-01-13
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2014, 12:21:17 AM »
My quick answers:

AGW (1) - Many years ago I showed some uncertainty on this subject in this forum, but now I feel pretty comfortable that it's real. 95% or 97% consensus among thousands of scientists is pretty strong evidence, and in the years since I was uncertain none of the reasonable evidence or reasoning I've seen makes me think this is a conspiracy or a mistake.

Vaccines (2) - Pretty well covered in the thread. I was thinking more about childhood vaccines and stuff like TDAP. They've been awesome at getting rid of diseases. Links to major problems always turn out to be nothing. I don't have a problem with flu vaccines myself, but I don't think it's so bad if certain people don't get them.

GMOs (2) - I agree with most of what Beta said. Seems like there's no real evidence that they're a danger, and there's plenty of chance for that to happen. Plenty of potential good to come of them, too. Seems like more research is needed, but I don't see a reason for it to be an issue. (And yes, GMOs are more than just food, but the bulk of related news lately is about food that uses GMOs so I figured the abbreviation was good enough.)

Fracking (2) - Similar to GMOs, seems like there's been plenty of opportunity for fracking to have shown evidence of danger, but there's really not much evidence of danger. I think we should be careful about this (consider fairly tight oversight/regulation), but I think we should allow it to move forward as a cleaner alternative to coal/oil.

Nuclear (2) - Guess everybody's in agreement. I hear bad stuff about Fukushima occasionally that I'm sort of monitoring, but I'm not certain the more frightening concerns are valid.
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Mike

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Re: POTD: 2014-01-13
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2014, 12:21:57 AM »
Quote from: kermi3 on January 14, 2014, 12:05:49 AM
We've been genetically modifying food for 1000s of years. Now we just do it more efficiently.

Yes and no.  It is closer to what we've been doing with dogs in that we fuck up natural selection in order to give the ones we want a better chance of surviving.  Now they are actually going in and directly altering the genes.  I'm less worried about the science than I am the lack of ethical oversight by the companies to not fuck up our food supply which we've seen they are more than willing to do.
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micah

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Re: POTD: 2014-01-13
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2014, 12:24:20 AM »
Quote from: Mike on January 13, 2014, 10:31:00 PM
  Global warming is micah and someone else...

Hey! I thought this was a secret ballot!

which, for some reason made me think of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZjJHbE_N4k&feature=youtu.be&t=24m36s
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