Author Topic: Coronavirus COVID-19  (Read 65198 times)

ober

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #435 on: September 13, 2021, 10:07:30 PM »
Have you worked in the clinical trial industry?  Do you have any idea what it takes for them to even say that evidence is emerging?  Do you know how long it takes normally for evidence from a clinical trial to be published and how many trials it usually takes?  No.  You don't.  On the other hand, I have worked in the clinical trial industry.  For 11 years.  I've talked to countless biotechs and pharma companies and seen the insane shit they go through for even the most basic of shit.  For them to say that, there must be significant evidence.

Jake

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #436 on: September 13, 2021, 10:51:31 PM »
Have you worked in the clinical trial industry?  Do you have any idea what it takes for them to even say that evidence is emerging?  Do you know how long it takes normally for evidence from a clinical trial to be published and how many trials it usually takes?  No.  You don't.  On the other hand, I have worked in the clinical trial industry.  For 11 years.  I've talked to countless biotechs and pharma companies and seen the insane shit they go through for even the most basic of shit.  For them to say that, there must be significant evidence.

ok...you'd think there was more than one study supporting their claims. anyway, I answered your question about "natural immunity" - what's your take?

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ober

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #437 on: September 14, 2021, 12:20:29 AM »
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/hybrid-immunity-people-covid-still-get-vaccinated-rcna1974

You should still get it.  Just because you might be asymptomatic doesn't mean you won't have long term health effects or that you are guaranteed immunity from the mutations of COVID.

Jake

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #438 on: September 14, 2021, 01:08:48 AM »
Just because you might be asymptomatic doesn't mean you won't have long term health effects or that you are guaranteed immunity from the mutations of COVID.

ah, same like the vaccinated people then.  :dblthumb2:
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charlie

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #439 on: September 14, 2021, 01:19:10 AM »
Some covid mandates have included "proof of previous infection and recovery" as one option to avoid it. Despite the fact that previous infection is likely less protective than the mRNA vaccines, I don't think I mind if they included that caveat in future mandates.

The goal is to stop it from spreading, and some natural immunity from previous infection will help.

It's obvious many people don't have enough immunity, though, because another 1700 people were reported dead from COVID today in the U.S. So in my opinion requiring a vaccine or weekly testing during a pandemic that is still killing like it's 9/11 every two days is a small price to pay. (And of course the idea that it's any kind of tyranny is asinine.)

Jake

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #440 on: September 15, 2021, 05:54:03 PM »
on the topic of natural immunity. Looks like the jury is still out - I do wish they spent more time exploring it

https://youtu.be/nJ-SeOkvQQQ?t=672

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charlie

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #441 on: September 16, 2021, 01:50:31 AM »
I do wish they spent more time exploring it

Yeah, the jury is out, but it's really a low priority for study. What would that tell us? There are several possibilities:

* Natural immunity is much better than vaccines: If this were the case we still wouldn't tell people to get infected on purpose given that it has killed millions. This will only "help" by giving cover to previously infected people who don't want the vaccine.

* Natural immunity and vaccines are similarly effective: In this case, the recommendation would still be to get vaccinated, and again the benefit would be to allow previously infected folks a reason to skip the vaccine if they preferred without significant harm to themselves or their community.

* Vaccines are much better than natural immunity: This would possibly help convince some people who were previously infected to get the vaccines for better protection, so that's a reasonable public health goal. But not a huge one given that the vaccines are so safe and easy that people should be getting them regardless of the above info.


So to sum up, it's a worthwhile area of investigation but not particularly critical. I'd rather spend time figuring out if lower doses are as effective (so more people can get vaccinated around the world) or when booster shots are most effective. They should also be studying giving an mRNA booster to the Johnson & Johnson (or AstraZeneca) people as their protection is more limited than those of us who got the Moderna or Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines.

Betazep

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #442 on: September 16, 2021, 08:30:04 AM »
You should not get the vaccine Jake.  (and you are not going to anyway... so arguing the point is worthless)  Your body... your life.  As to the argument that it affects other people if you do not get the vaccine - should you get covid and spread it around... well it seems like it is spreading around just fine - even in vaccinated people.  People will harp on, "It is because not enough people are vaccinated", but at the same time there has been some serious questioning on whether or not herd immunity is even possible (anymore - and maybe it never was, now if there was a vaccine that blocked transmission, then my opinion would shift). 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00728-2

I got the vaccine for me... not for all of you.  That's the reality.  It is not that I do not love you guys, but if I did have serious concerns for me... I wouldn't have gotten it either.  (but as I said earlier... I have been injected with everything - que sera)
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ober

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #443 on: September 16, 2021, 01:26:49 PM »
I got the vaccine for me... not for all of you.  That's the reality.  It is not that I do not love you guys, but if I did have serious concerns for me... I wouldn't have gotten it either.
Interesting comment.  Are you saying if you thought the virus would do something to you, you wouldn't have gotten it?  Or is there a typo and you're saying you got it only because you're in a higher risk category?

Of course we all got it to protect ourselves.  But that's not the ONLY reason you should be getting it, IMO. 

Betazep

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #444 on: September 16, 2021, 02:11:15 PM »
A typo - misunderstanding.  I got it because I didn't want to die.  Less than I thought I was protecting others.  And certainly not out of some greater-sense-of-community. 

But if I had serious concerns about anything related to safety, I wouldn't have gotten it.

I like science, tho.  And I got to see many risk groups get it before me.  The sample size for human trials was huge before it got to me - haha.

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ober

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #445 on: September 16, 2021, 04:33:54 PM »
Got it.  Thanks for clarifying.

Jake

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #446 on: September 16, 2021, 11:56:34 PM »
More information on the Israeli natural immunity study referenced in the CNN video from my previous post

https://youtu.be/_vxe9pJRQcs
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Betazep

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #447 on: September 17, 2021, 07:00:38 AM »
Interesting.  I can see a couple potential flaws around behaviors and randomization.  It doesn't track whether or not the vaccinated group behaved differently... and the sets are fixed.
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Betazep

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #448 on: September 17, 2021, 07:01:31 AM »
Oh I guess I should have waited to post.  He just mentioned that - heh.  Great review.
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Jake

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #449 on: September 17, 2021, 07:19:58 AM »
Oh I guess I should have waited to post.  He just mentioned that - heh.  Great review.

I think that was one of the best videos I've seen in a while. Just facts presented in an unbiased way. Refreshing
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