EntropySink
Technical & Scientific => Hardware => Topic started by: KnuckleBuckett on March 28, 2013, 03:49:57 PM
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We recently replaced our projection TV with a new 240Hz Samsung LED/LCD.
We also added a AV center below it. It has kind of a rustic look. Oak plank top coppery patina cage structure below.
I just picked this integrated up.
http://jeffrowlandgroup.com/ConcertoInt.htm
And next weekend I am heading out to pick up a pair of these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB4IDdVOJE0
So pretty major jump. Most or all of this will be funded by selling used equipment I have around the house.
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Second link didn't work. I need to stop by some time when we're out there to check it all out. You've always had really cool stuff.
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Received the integrated. Wow. Photos do not do it justice. The remote is sweet also. All gray anodized aluminum front and back except for machined silver aluminum buttons.
Mike Kelly and I are road tripping to get the speaks next Saturday.
Can't wait to demo them for ya Benny. You will have a blast.
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I will put up photos when I get it all together.
BTW, all used audio equipment. No way I could purchase these products new.
I use Audiogon.com and have for years. Great place to buy and sell quality audio gear.
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The integrated is installed in the system with my original Monitor Audio speakers. It is an amazing piece of gear. Fast, powerful, and lacking in nothing I want from an amp. The remote is simple an built like a Russian tank. 10/10.
As a bonus it has a very high WAF (wife acceptance factor). It looks amazing and she has commented on it several times.
A friend and I are driving north of NY City to pick up the speaks on Saturday.
I suppose that Saturday night and Sunday I will work on setting them up and enjoying them.
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I think all of this stuff is really cool, but I have never been able to get into it.
I pretty much just go with an in-a-box solution for my entertainment system. It is so much less money than components... takes up less space... but certainly doesn't sound as amazing as I bet your system does.
Most of my movie watching these days involves the kids sleeping nearby... so the audio is on very low and sometimes with subtitles so we don't wake them up. :(
I bought the current setup 4 years ago for $150. It is starting to have a little problems... so might be time to fork out another $200-$300 for the next 4 years. :)
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Nice! Did you do a pro install or do it yourself?
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I am working on setting it up myself.
I think I can set it up well. There is a local (DC) shop that is trained for these loudspeakers if I need help.
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Woah... what makes it that complicated? I thought it was just two wires and good to go?
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LOL
No way. For most of my early life I would have agreed though.
Setting up a high end system and getting it just right can take days or months. As Kermi noted you can get a pro to help with the proper setup electronics, recordings, and techniques for that set of loudspeakers, but it isn't exactly free. I have been doing this for years and can get them set up fairly close in short order. Tuning them perfectly is more time consuming and something I won't do for a while. I purchased a pair with new drivers and at about 75% off. However the cabinets are a a bit rough. Knowing that this manufacturer uses automotive grade paint, I decided that when I get the car paint repaired (some tool scratched up my paint - plastic only) this summer I will have them shoot the speaks at the same time. Moonlight pearl with a clear coat. Then. I will get them set up professionally.
If you ever get a chance and want something to do that won't cost you anything, grab some favorite music and check out your local high end audio salon. Demo a few speaks in price ranges that you could never afford. You will probably be pretty amazed and it should be fun.
A nice upper mid-fi audio system can be had for a very reasonable price point, if you know what brands to purchase, go with used gear, and have a little patience. Obes did that a few years back. I just helped a neighbor do the same.
It isn't that the brands you know all suck, it is more that for the same money you can own superior gear that puts their cash into product rather than marketing and mass appeal. Plus if you care for it well, it will likely have a pretty healthy resale. Most of the equipment I am selling now is selling for 9-% to 110% of what I paid for it 8 plus years ago. My gosh that is nice. Speakers tend to be the exception.
If you ever demo a set of speakers to purchase, bring your own music. Bring cuts, that you could listen to over and over and again. Have the sales person play these cuts and listen to the entire track. If it sounds great but you want to stop/interrupt the song before it is finished, be warned that the speaker is likely the wrong choice. The real test is - do you want to listen all the way through without interruption-. This demonstrates that they aren't hooking you with false/pronounced upper mids and highs that catch your attention but tire your ears fast. A nice set of speaks will make you want to listen to the whole song and leave you wanting more.
In my world it is about loving the music as it is presented not about dollars, and name brands. I can literally listen for hours to complete cuts and in some cases complete albums all because the system never tires your ears, presents a very realistic sound field, and places the musicians, instruments, and recording environment in a three dimensional field in front of me. You can actually hear the woodwinds up front and the triangle thirty meters back and ten to the left. Same with a good band or solo. Oddly the big Whitney Houston hit from The Bodyguard is always a big hit with folks that want to hear my system. You can actually hear her at the proper height, dead center on the mic and as real as if she was on stage in front of you.
One last cool tidbit. A good stereo system does far better surround than a full fledged 7.1 surround system. I cant count the number of times we have had friends over that have gone looking for the speakers on the side, middle, or behind them -- that don't exist. Laura find this a blast and I just laugh.
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Hmmm... you are totally convincing me. Maybe it is time for a new hobby.
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:D
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A nice upper mid-fi audio system can be had for a very reasonable price point, if you know what brands to purchase, go with used gear, and have a little patience. Obes did that a few years back. I just helped a neighbor do the same.
Knuck knows his shit, and it's totally true. He hooked me up with my first set of awesome speakers. Went from tall Bose floor speakers that I thought sounded good to something half the size that sounded SO much better from a brand I'd never heard of. And it is true, the 2 speakers that Knuck had threw sound around the room like there were speakers everywhere. It sounded like an arrow was literally shot around the room and into my ear from the side and the speakers were sitting right in front of me.
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A couple pics of the setup as it is.
I will work with them a bit more before I add the spikes to the bottom of them.
Wilson Audio Watt Puppies Loudspeakers
Jeff Rowland Concerto Integrated (preamp amp combo)
Cables are MIT (interconnects) and Nordost (speaker cable)
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Looks great! Thanks for sharing the pics. What TV is that?
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Samsung 6050. We picked it up at Sams over the Christmas holiday for $900. Paid for the 3 year top to bottom warranty. Total cost was about $1100.
http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN60EH6050FXZA
This is our/my second TV. Our Pioneer was eight, but as a projection I wanted to sell it before there were any issues. Hell it was like 400 lbs. Charlie made a $300 offer for it and we decided to switch early putting the $$ towards the new Samsung. He is thrilled and so are we. Three days after we purchased our TV Sams increased the price to $1200 sans warranty.
So far 9.5/10. It has a feature that changes brightness per the ambient light. In our house it is more trouble than it is worth. So I turn it off. However every firmware update turns it back on. Sigh. That said, there tech. support is awesome!!
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Charlie made a $300 offer for it and we decided to switch early putting the $$ towards the new Samsung. He is thrilled and so are we.
Well, I was thrilled but the dang thing hasn't been delivered yet even though I gave you the money weeks ago. Not cool, sir. Not cool.
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TV's in the mail. And I promise not to ....
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what are those wires called and how do they hook into the back of the speakers?
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Nordost is the company. They are essentially flat speaker wire. I like the sound and the look.
They can be purchased with pins, bananas, or spades (mine). Bi-wired or single.
All of my interconnects and speaker wires are used.
http://www.nordost.com/category/3/speaker-cables
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So... I am always a critical thinker. I like to look for contrary viewpoints and discuss them when I can.
There is no doubt in my mind that there are different quality levels in audio and audio systems. Some of these quality levels involve subjective perception. But some of them can be certainly measured. I have listened to friends "hifi" speakers from "hifi" receivers that sound amazing by comparison to my cheapos. The question becomes, at a high end for many systems/speakers/cables etc is there really that much difference?
I looked at the nordost site and was kind of turned off by how they were representing the quality of their cables. Construction being flat has application benefits (like under the carpet)... but is the sound better than some other decently constructed cables that are probably way cheaper?
I came across this guy...
http://sound.westhost.com/cables.htm
I read much of the first page and then went to the conclusion section and read that. He pretty much makes an argument that it is somewhere in the middle. As in, of course there is wire that could be very bad for sound... and of course there is wire that could be very good for sound. But most wire that was designed to be good for sound WILL be good and most people couldn't tell the difference in studies where various cables were switched back and forth.
Thoughts?
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Yup.
It is mostly why I purchased used gear and cabling. It is all a good bit overpriced.
I have subjectively heard. Very clearly. The difference in each and every component. Am I one to push expensive cabling? No. Not really. I do try to convince people new the market to purchase quality cabling, but not super expensive parts. Speaker cable that does not patina is always nice, interconnects with enough quality that they ends and internals don't tarnish. Once you get past cabling that is immune to normal atmospheric conditions and wear and tear, meh... it is up to the individual.
I think that most of the Nordost line tends not to show up sonically and seems to have less time delay. That is a very subjective opinion, but one that I have held for about 15 years, which is how long I have had that set of speaker cables. I think I paid $150 for a 3 meter set. The MIT I purchased for similar reasoning with similarly discounted pricing.
So in most cases I advise purchasing good quality cabling to start and then when you are done with the rest, if you feel the need, then screw with cabling. Cabling reaches the point of diminishing returns faster than any other component.
Importance of the components IMO...
Protection (Quality outlet strip)
Speaks
Front End (source and or D/A)
Preamp
Amp
Cabling and accessories
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Nice. I see the logic of that.
what is D/A?
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Digital to Analog converter. Converts digital sources like CD, MP3, etc. to an analog voltage.
The quality of the D/A used makes a dramatic difference in the quality of the sound. Which kind of makes sense.
Burr Brown is an example of a supplier for excellent quality D/A chips. ESS SABRE32 would be another example.
It should be noted D/A and A/D converters are used in all sorts of products that have nothing to do with audio.
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nice. take pic of remote
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This is a Google photo of it.
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Update.
-Found a woofer with an excursion issue.
-Foam around the front baffles needed to be replaced.
-The piano lacquer finish was scratched up and needed TLC.
-Found out that there was a tweeter update a couple years back.
New woofer ordered. Typical of the high end they actually match the Thiele/Small characteristics so that it is unnecessary to purchase a matched pair.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele/Small
New tweeters and foam panels ordered.
So in that I was going to get new drivers, needed to replace the baffle foam, and we didn't want piano lacquer anyway....
We are having them repainted GM White Diamond Tricoat. I have attached an image.
I have decided the cabling will stay as is.
I may well get a universal media player as well. It takes all digital media, CD, streamed, etc, and pulls the information through its own D/A, so that no matter the source the sound is about as good as you are going to get. Also it has balanced (XLR) outputs.
It is an Oppo-105.
http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-105/
More photos when I get it all back together in a few weeks.
BTW even as is, the system is nothing short of stunning. Despite my nitpicking, I am very pleased with $$ versus what I now own.
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Well I opened up the speaks, pulled the drivers, and decided to replace the tweeters, midranges, external foam diffusion panels.
Also slightly changed the color we are having them painted. We are going with a Ford Platinum Metallic Pearl tricoat. Common on the Ford Fusion, Taurus, etc. where it is a slightly gold white pearl. Less obvious than the GM version.
Basically I am giving them a full update and remodel before they become a permanent fixture in the house.
I also worked on a few other tweaks to the Nordost cables, phono shorting plugs, and so on.
When I get the enclosures back from the paint shop, I will have to let them sit a couple weeks to cure and out-gas. Afterwords I will seal them with various layers automotive sealants and topcoat them in carnauba wax.
All bolts and hardware will be polished stainless steel. The feet and spikes will remain flat black so that they don't stand out.
If I can get them off of my phone onto my work PC, I will post a few pics of the teardown results.
For now I am holding off from getting the OPPO universal media player, as it cannot play Amazon Prime media yet.
I know I am probably boring most of you to tears, but I am fairly hyped! So I will continue to post updates.
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Please do... it is all interesting even though I'm not sure what some of it means ;)
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Pics of the tear down of the Watts and Puppies.
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I am excited to see the results.
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Update.
The paint shop is converting to solvent free paint systems. Bad for getting the speaks painted, but good for the quality of the paint work. Especially with pearls and tri-coats.
Received the cables back from Nordost. Excellent work and fast. Nice.
Currently have my old go to speaks up. Fried C/3-L loudspeakers. If any of you ever want to build a set, I can get you the plans for the cabinets and the crossovers. They are transmission line loudspeakers, so the cabinets are fairly complicated but the sound is freaking amazing. With a damned nice finish you can typically build a set for a fair price.
The photo is my set from around 1990. MDF interior with an English Oak laminate.
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WTF is up with the Sink? Half of my replies today have crashed. I can't post a pic of the C/3-L speaks either.
No data received
Unable to load the webpage because the server sent no data.
Here are some suggestions:
Reload this webpage later.
Error 324 (net::ERR_EMPTY_RESPONSE): The server closed the connection without sending any data.
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That's weird.
*sigh*, might be a sign of high traffic. I'm gonna have to jump up to a VPS soon.
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High traffic on the PTA site? Cause it ain't coming from the sink
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Yeah, that's what I meant. They are gearing up for a membership drive.
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Anyway...this is a C/3-L in our living room. Yeah I know...uuuuugly stands. True dat. Cheap tho. $40. If I was going to use them more permanently I would get nice nickel plated or some such filled stands. Filled with sand and lead shot.
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Ooooh... that is so cool. And love your floors. I won't show my wife this picture. Those are the kind of floors she wants.
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Love em. We get plenty of compliments.
Even the speaks get high marks from the female types. Though most want grilles. I have seen the C/3-L s done in some truly kick-ass finishes.
Piano lacquer, Bubinga (my mom), automotive paints, even faux marble finishes. Oh and though I have not seen a set with my peepers, I know that they have been created (machined?) out of solid surface materials like Corian.
Solid real wood and stone are out.
My brother has Green Mountain Audio Diamonte' speaks. I used to rep them in Michigan when I worked in high end audio. See stock photo of the green and brown marble look. His are travertine.
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It should also be noted that people are constantly wowed by the quality, surround, and depth of sound those little C/3-Ls can put out.
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Speaks are back from the paint shop. Look pretty amazing.
I will let them cure for a few weeks, polish them to a mirror, and seal them.
Then in go the new parts, with the stainless hardware. Finally on to the spikes, and onto setting them up official like.
I will post photos as they are now, as soon as I remember to bring my work camera home.
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:)
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So pretty.... :)
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Thanks!
Anyone else digging the paint or is it too much?
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I like it :thumbsup:
...unless suggesting that it's too much means you're looking to get rid of them for cheap. In that case you way overdid it and I'll PM you my mailing address.
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:lol:
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Watch this if you wonder why I am still using stereo. One of my all time favs.
Great little explanation of stereo and how humans interpret it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SQmQD27uCt0#at=17
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Ooo Kay.
After a week wet sanding the now painted and cured speaker cabinets. I polished them to a perfectly clear mirror finish.
Now I am layering various types of sealant on them. GTechnique EXO and Silo 1.5. Two of the first and ten of the second.
I will add a few final coats of Ultima Paint Guard before assembly. Wipe on and walk away but slow as each coat takes 12 or so hours to cure.
Where the tops sit on the bottoms I am going to add Zagg patches to minimize slipping and or scratching.
I will try to get more photos soon.
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Getting there.
Setup tomorrow if time allows.
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hot
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Damn they look nice!
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HA! They will look nicer set up!
As soon as I get home I will get everything ready. Mike is going to stop by after work to help out.
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he moved?
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he moved?
lol
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Before....
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After and finished.
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With grills...
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Right after the pics I hooked em up and checked em out.
10/10
Sighhhh
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Must be a great feeling! They look amazing! Fantastic job!! :D
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Thanks.
Been years in the coming. Sure is neat to have em around.
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Went all the way and picked up the Oppo BD-105 in silver.
Pulled the high end Panasonic and installed the Oppo.
What a difference in audio and video quality! Sheesh! If you have a really nice TV and a crappy source it is not being all that it can be! I was stunned by the differences.
It also has a ton of cool capabilities.
I logged into the router and picked up my PC, but it asked for a UN and PW. I use neither. Can one of you software nuts tell me what I am missing here?
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Well fucking done.
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Got the UN and PW thing figured.
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Got the UN and PW thing figured.
What ended up being the issue?
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Windows was blocking the unknown newcomer. I had to allow access in Networking.