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Nothing & Everything => Open Discussion => Topic started by: Jake on February 26, 2020, 04:08:11 PM

Title: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on February 26, 2020, 04:08:11 PM
thoughts?

this is a cool map: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

It is already disrupting the supply chain in my industry - lead times on equipment are 3 to 5 months where they were 3 to 6 weeks before.

Either way, if you don't have a home emergency food/water supply - this is a good time to think about it. Even if nothing happens out of this, it is good to have 3-7 days of things on hand.

I don't think it will be "deadly" here in North America, but I think it will affect economy and industry significantly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: KnuckleBuckett on February 27, 2020, 06:14:34 AM
It doesn't seem to be a super dangerous like SARS or Ebola I suppose.  Sure spreads easily though.  I think that it will go on well past 2020 and the economic effects will depend upon how well we learn to manage it.

This has been floating around.  https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aAgLBRZ_700bwp.webp


Seems like this would be right up Jen's alley...
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on February 27, 2020, 09:15:27 AM
I think it's sort of being blown out of proportion.  Based on the numbers, it's not even as deadly as the normal flu from what I heard.  Yes it spreads but so does the normal flu.  Maybe I'm missing something but I think we'd all be better off if this was just treated like another strain of what we get every year.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on February 27, 2020, 02:41:03 PM
I think it's sort of being blown out of proportion.  Based on the numbers, it's not even as deadly as the normal flu from what I heard.  Yes it spreads but so does the normal flu.  Maybe I'm missing something but I think we'd all be better off if this was just treated like another strain of what we get every year.

I agree with this, but would caveat that this hyper awareness is a great way to also stop the spread of the flu and other, more common viruses.  Screening at airports and forced quarantine, required hand washing in certain areas or normalizing the wearing of protective masks, could all help reduce easily transmitted pathogens. There's a balance there somewhere between an abundance-of-caution and civil/personal liberties...but this is an interesting real-world case study of how we can prepare for both pandemic and regional-viral outbreaks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on February 27, 2020, 02:55:10 PM
Here's one image on current potential infection and fatality rate: (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERuFIiGUcAAFyYM?format=jpg)

I personally don't see people freaking out yet but it's legitimately a big story and they can't really be sure yet how bad it can get. Worth monitoring here in the U.S. and hopefully health officials are preparing.

This has been floating around.  https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aAgLBRZ_700bwp.webp

Some very bad logic in that infographic. :eek:


Based on the numbers, it's not even as deadly as the normal flu from what I heard.

Even if this is true, the flu kills a lot of people! We should do more to work on that.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on February 27, 2020, 09:02:23 PM
They covered it on the Daily today on NPR
https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5wb2R0cmFjLmNvbS96S3E2V1paTFRsYk0&episode=Z2lkOi8vYXJ0MTktZXBpc29kZS1sb2NhdG9yL1YwL2hMeGk2enVUdmt6NnpfSWlxVlhwZE5nSi1lR2k3LXltSVlPOHpJb09FZTg
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on February 28, 2020, 06:16:58 PM
My wife is starting to stock up on some non-perishables and water just in case. While I don't think it'll come to widespread panic stage, it's possible that it causes inconvenience and like Jake said, it's just a good idea in general.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on March 02, 2020, 09:13:29 AM
I also stocked up on some non-perishables. If I end up not needing it I'll make a nice donation to the food bank.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 02, 2020, 04:57:16 PM
I mean, they are non-perishables.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on March 02, 2020, 05:00:44 PM
We have a whole bunch of nonperishables and frozen already in our pantry and freezer and just trying to maintain stock. Trying to avoid the supermarkets and the big stores on busy days though. They're complete madhouses.

The hospital I work at is implementing a bunch of measures to ensure patient and staff safety. We are NOT an emergency hospital and trying our hardest to avoid any unnecessary exposure. All hospital-sponsored travel to/from China, HK, Taiwan, SK, Italy, Iran, and Japan were suspended. Staff have been asked to notify management of ANY upcoming international travel. Personal travel to those areas may result in a quarantine upon return. All international patients from those areas have been postponed until further notice.

But on the ground, the response is the same as the flu. Practice respiratory and hand hygiene, get the flu vaccine, clean and disinfect surfaces frequently, and don't come to work sick.

I'm worried about the economic impact for small business in addition to the macro scale. I've definitely heard of 1st hand accounts of small dry cleaners, nail salons, liquor stores all losing business this past week. No one has been coming in, presumably because of the virus scare.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 02, 2020, 09:36:46 PM
We ran out to Costco this evening to grab a few things and they were completely out of water, paper towels, and toilet paper. They were running low on rice and some canned goods. And this is just the beginning
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on March 02, 2020, 10:49:36 PM
My wife stopped at Target on her way home today for normal stuff and sent me a picture of the cleared out cold med and pain med isles. She said it was insane and people are crazy. Meanwhile, I stopped off on my way home to a different store for some OJ (not Target and other side of town) and everything seemed normal.

I heard from some coworkers though that the Costcos around here were crazy last weekend too.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 04, 2020, 06:41:10 AM
My girlfriends corporate boss sent out an e-mail saying "There is a serious shortage of hand sanitizer and Lysol wipes. Please stop what you are doing and go get some for your store. This is important for the safety of our teams. React and stock up."   She sent me a screenshot and was like LOL that's ridiculous.  She inevitably sent an employee to walmart which was completely sold out of everything!  She called a few other businesses and was able to get the local dollar store to hold 20-bottles of hand sanitizer. Crazy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on March 04, 2020, 11:26:58 AM
I asked about hand sanitizer at our drug store and the pharmacist (literally) laughed at me. They've been sold out for a long time and can't get anymore in stock.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on March 04, 2020, 03:56:13 PM
Welp. Hospital has shut down all work-sponsored domestic and international travel for at least the next 60 days. None of the physicians get to go to their big meeting at the end of the month. My bosses don't get to go to New Orleans in April. And I have to cancel my trip to Wisconsin in May.

Oh, but we're allowed to go to the Knicks game today. LOL
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on March 04, 2020, 09:20:51 PM
Yeah, my company has banned all non-essential travel and cancelled a bunch of external events.

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 05, 2020, 11:09:26 AM
I mean, it sucks, but also let's hope it saves a few lives of elderly or immuno-compromised folks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 05, 2020, 06:19:01 PM
I have to stop looking at my portfolio because I feel like crying. Holy shit what a roller coaster
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 05, 2020, 09:33:08 PM
see, this is why I don't have a 401k  :lol:
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 06, 2020, 09:35:50 AM
We are starting the deployment of our new system in a month and this week I raised the sickness that has been going through the office plus the COVID issue as a yellow flag.  So now we are preparing for our contingency if we have to close the office and have everyone work from home.  Could be a fun time
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 06, 2020, 02:02:00 PM
Our CEO sent out a memo today; no business travel; anyone with a temperature over 100.4 is not permitted on premises.  Vendors/Contractords/Customers must be vetted before being allowed to visit.

Seems like a little overkill but then again, last week we had 30+ out sick (with a common cold and/or the flu.)  Thats about 10% of this location and, since most of them are in the manufacturing area, it's more like a 12-15% loss in working capacity.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 06, 2020, 03:09:55 PM
Yeah, we got a similar letter at work and the schools have ramped up as well.  Kids must wait 48 hours after a fever ends to return to school and they are doing a deep cleaning of all the schools. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 06, 2020, 03:33:39 PM
Saw this on Reddit this morning: https://act.nationalnursesunited.org/page/-/files/graphics/NU-Quarantine-RN-press-conf-statement.pdf

Sounds like the feds are just do a fantastic job managing this /s
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on March 06, 2020, 03:38:31 PM
Our offices in Seattle and San Fran are now basically closed. All employees have been told to work from home if possible.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 06, 2020, 05:08:00 PM
Saw this on Reddit this morning: https://act.nationalnursesunited.org/page/-/files/graphics/NU-Quarantine-RN-press-conf-statement.pdf

Sounds like the feds are just do a fantastic job managing this /s

this is on par with anything the government does. Top down, starting with Trump, the handling of this (or mis-handling) is pretty horrible - and it WILL get much worse before it gets better. If you listen to the experts, many are saying this virus has the potential to be as wide spread as the Spanish flu - sure, it is 100 years later, and our medicine is much more advanced, and not nearly as many people will die - but just as many might get infected.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 08, 2020, 01:51:01 PM
We are starting the deployment of our new system in a month and this week I raised the sickness that has been going through the office plus the COVID issue as a yellow flag.  So now we are preparing for our contingency if we have to close the office and have everyone work from home.  Could be a fun time

EGUSD already closing for this week due to COVID-19. Better prepare soon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 08, 2020, 01:55:45 PM
Saw that on Reddit.  The other districts aren't closing and the county said that EGUSD didn't consult them.  So /shrug on what the real story is.

Fortunately, we do independent study and home schooling so we could close the office without stopping all educational activities.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 09, 2020, 04:21:33 PM
good thing I moved all my stuff to money market on Friday - holy shit.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 09, 2020, 07:33:39 PM
meh, it'll rebound soon enough.  Low oil prices will boost the economy and eventually the corona virus will wean out.... things will stabilize and probably peak higher than before.... I predict all before the election.

that said, I have no skin (or money) in the game. LOL.  My 401k starts next month...guess I'll be buying low ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on March 09, 2020, 09:41:20 PM
Relatively low, I'm guessing this is going to get a bit worse before it gets any better. And the chances of this lasting a while are pretty good I think. So I hope nobody here was really looking forward to retiring in the next couple years.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 09, 2020, 10:04:13 PM
Sacramento county updated their advisories.  They are moving from containment to mitigation.  They are no longer recommending the 14 day quarantine upon exposure to with COVID-19.  Just normal "wash your damn hands, stay the fuck home if you are sick, don't call 911 unless you are literally in an emergency" (anger translation mine).

https://www.saccounty.net/news/latest-news/Pages/County-Announces-New-Mitigation-Efforts-COVID-19.aspx
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 10, 2020, 01:47:37 AM
Odd given that there seems to be some possibility that you can be contagious without exhibiting symptoms.

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 10, 2020, 09:23:02 AM
Ohio is now in a state of emergency.  3 reported cases in Cuyahoga County (Cleveland, basically).  My management team just met yesterday to ask if there was anything preventing us from having everyone WFH for several weeks.  So that's happening. 

I am not changing anything financially.  One of my clients on the side is a financial advisor and also said to stay the course in his most recent email to his clients.  Everyone freaking out just makes everyone else freak out.  Calm down and don't do anything irrational.  This too shall pass.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 10, 2020, 05:29:42 PM
nice comeback today - hopefully this continues throughout the week.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 10, 2020, 07:30:46 PM
I'm soooo excited for you.  I'm sure the people who are sick really care about your portfolio /s
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 10, 2020, 08:34:33 PM
you're a real bitch lately, Mike.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 10, 2020, 09:50:39 PM
I can see both sides of it so I will ask you both to maybe take a breather?  Mike, you've been super harsh lately.  We've gotten in heated debates on here but you've sort of been off the charts in attack mode lately, especially with Jake (or mainly solely with Jake).  Jake, your comments about your financials in a thread about the virus when the rest of us are talking about keeping people safe aren't completely out of line but it does come off a little aloof and out of touch.  Just FYI.  I'll leave your political thoughts alone.  You're entitled to your opinions.  And frankly, I think it's healthy to have differing opinions on here.  If we all thought the same way it would be boring.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 10, 2020, 10:53:08 PM
This is a thread about the virus - no matter what it affects. Economy and the stock market is one of those things. My 401K and other investments, as well as millions of other people's took a huge hit in the past week - I think that is a topic worth exploring.
I mean, holy shit, I lost a lot of money! But that doesn't mean I don't feel for the people that are sick.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 11, 2020, 12:09:46 AM
I said it wasn't completely out of line.  I just think Mike is already triggered by you for some reason.  Just giving you reasons why he lost his shit?  I'm not trying to start anything with you.  No need to be defensive.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 11, 2020, 02:04:56 AM
If we all thought the same way it would be boring.

Meh, on the political front it is pretty boring because most people don't really want to talk about what they think. And honestly it's not my place to say they're wrong on that, but it's not like we have any good discussions on about politics.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 11, 2020, 02:27:42 AM
With what I'm reading I'm feeling like being proactive and canceling or postponing events is the right way to go. Obviously that's a hardship for some but I think in the long run it will save lives.

Saw some info today about how people tend to be more contagious early in the cycle (like maybe even before symptoms) and less contagious at the end (like maybe quarantine doesn't need to last as long).

Also, I think the idea is that we should be making decisions now based on what we expect to be true in a couple weeks, because all the information is a week or two behind. We still don't have nearly enough testing capability even though we've had months to prepare and weeks since it was clear it was needed. Everywhere in the U.S. that has reported cases has seen numbers that get bigger and bigger on a daily basis. If your case load keeps doubling every few days and there are a bunch of people infected that don't show symptoms yet or haven't been tested, then guess what, you have a ton more cases than actually being reported and the number is going to keep going up unless you stop people who don't realize they're contagious from infecting other people.

If you have community transmission in your community, close shit down. If you have infected people even if not from community transmission, quarantine them and everybody they've been in contact with if you can. Slow the spread before you become Italy and your health care system is overwhelmed.

Edit: Just saw this article after posting: The Atlantic: Cancel Everything (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/coronavirus-cancel-everything/607675/) (4 free articles before subscription required)

Quote
Because the United States has been extremely sluggish in testing patients for the coronavirus, the official tally of 604 likely represents a fraction of the real caseload. But even if we take this number at face value, it suggests that we should prepare to have up to 10 times as many cases a week from today, and up to 100 times as many cases two weeks from today.

Quote
Meanwhile, the news from Italy, another country with a highly developed medical system, has so far been shockingly bad. In the affluent region of Lombardy, for example, there have been 7,375 confirmed cases of the virus as of Sunday. Of these patients, 622 had recovered, 366 had died, and the majority were still sick. Even under the highly implausible assumption that all of the still-sick make a full recovery, this would suggest a case fatality rate of 5 percent—significantly higher, not lower, than in China.
Note that 5% is 50 times worse than the flu.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on March 11, 2020, 09:38:24 AM
Quote
Meanwhile, the news from Italy, another country with a highly developed medical system, has so far been shockingly bad. In the affluent region of Lombardy, for example, there have been 7,375 confirmed cases of the virus as of Sunday. Of these patients, 622 had recovered, 366 had died, and the majority were still sick. Even under the highly implausible assumption that all of the still-sick make a full recovery, this would suggest a case fatality rate of 5 percent—significantly higher, not lower, than in China.
Note that 5% is 50 times worse than the flu.

Yes, a heavily overwhelmed healthcare system is going to have higher fatality rates. I don't think 5% is quite representative of a true mortality rate though. I really liked this article although the the figures are a little out of date now.
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca


But basically it's the same conclusion. Reduce transmission and encourage social distancing.
(https://miro.medium.com/max/670/1*PZesaMfoPxgYJBoQVtpmjQ.gif)
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on March 11, 2020, 09:49:19 AM
Also, we had our first hospital scare and sent a sample out for testing last week. Thankfully it came back negative, but the state had to expand their qualifications for testing before we could actually send it. Staff are getting daily updates about everything and we have livestreams scheduled every Friday until the forseeable future. IT Staff are beginning a 50% staff WFH alternating weekly. I don't quite have that much luxury, but everyone is definitely ramping up their WFH.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 11, 2020, 10:02:34 AM
What I find absolutely insane are the stories of people breaking quarantine to go to mass gatherings.  Like, what the fuck is going through their head?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 11, 2020, 11:08:14 AM
Quote
Meanwhile, the news from Italy, another country with a highly developed medical system, has so far been shockingly bad. In the affluent region of Lombardy, for example, there have been 7,375 confirmed cases of the virus as of Sunday. Of these patients, 622 had recovered, 366 had died, and the majority were still sick. Even under the highly implausible assumption that all of the still-sick make a full recovery, this would suggest a case fatality rate of 5 percent—significantly higher, not lower, than in China.
Note that 5% is 50 times worse than the flu.

Yes, a heavily overwhelmed healthcare system is going to have higher fatality rates. I don't think 5% is quite representative of a true mortality rate though.

Agreed. That's really just one part of Italy whose health care system is already overwhelmed. Still, the fatality rate I've seen estimated is still between 1% and 3.5%, which still super high compared to flu's 0.1%.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 11, 2020, 11:24:19 AM


Quote
Meanwhile, the news from Italy, another country with a highly developed medical system, has so far been shockingly bad. In the affluent region of Lombardy, for example, there have been 7,375 confirmed cases of the virus as of Sunday. Of these patients, 622 had recovered, 366 had died, and the majority were still sick. Even under the highly implausible assumption that all of the still-sick make a full recovery, this would suggest a case fatality rate of 5 percent—significantly higher, not lower, than in China.
Note that 5% is 50 times worse than the flu.

makes you wonder how skewed the data from China was/is - they are reporting a lower death rate then we are seeing.

Also, did you guys see the numbers coming out of Russia - those guys are so fucked up. only 20 cases - yeah right.

With what I'm reading I'm feeling like being proactive and canceling or postponing events is the right way to go. Obviously that's a hardship for some but I think in the long run it will save lives.

agreed. But where do you draw the line? I reserved 3 days at a water park in a couple of weeks for Spring Break - I'm considering canceling that - but should I? I bet there will be many people from Chicago and Minneapolis. Or maybe they will all cancel and we'll have the place to our selves.

I also have some business travel scheduled for as soon as next week - I opted to drive (to Cleveland) in lieu of flying - but I am staying overnight at a hotel.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 11, 2020, 11:29:01 AM
I just think Mike is already triggered by you for some reason.

I could say something like: "doesn't take a lot to trigger a snowflake!" - but I won't  :nana:

peace&love  :afro:
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 11, 2020, 11:32:11 AM
Ok boomer
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on March 11, 2020, 12:32:30 PM
makes you wonder how skewed the data from China was/is - they are reporting a lower death rate then we are seeing.

There was a point in the article I linked. China locked down like crazy. Hubei converged at about 5%. The rest of China converged at .9%
(https://miro.medium.com/max/3134/1*14hmTh1TCfscKI1BgCHwng.png)
(https://miro.medium.com/max/3266/1*pDV9FhbWw7eZbxT_4LIfRg.png)
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 11, 2020, 01:13:11 PM
I just think Mike is already triggered by you for some reason.

I could say something like: "doesn't take a lot to trigger a snowflake!" - but I won't  :nana:

peace&love  :afro:

Lol I almost made a snowflake joke at the expense of the people who don't want to discuss their political positions but I thought nah... :p
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 11, 2020, 01:14:19 PM
With what I'm reading I'm feeling like being proactive and canceling or postponing events is the right way to go. Obviously that's a hardship for some but I think in the long run it will save lives.

agreed. But where do you draw the line? I reserved 3 days at a water park in a couple of weeks for Spring Break - I'm considering canceling that - but should I? I bet there will be many people from Chicago and Minneapolis. Or maybe they will all cancel and we'll have the place to our selves.

I also have some business travel scheduled for as soon as next week - I opted to drive (to Cleveland) in lieu of flying - but I am staying overnight at a hotel.

I think there's a difference between individual behavior and community behavior. You want to try to avoid getting infected partly for yourselves and families but also to help slow the spread. But on an individual level I personally don't see a lot of risk with a business trip unless there is an outbreak. A family water park trip is more iffy since there are a lot of people there altogether.

To me the more important thing is for the community leaders to identify when it seems reasonable that the virus has entered that community and when it has, seriously consider canceling or postponing events and closing large gathering spots (like a water park). If it's open and you don't have any reason to think there is active infections in that area and you don't have any reason to think your family has been in contact with an infected person, then I wouldn't say you're wrong to go to the park. I'd probably skip it just to be safe, though.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 11, 2020, 01:21:19 PM
There is also a critical mass element.  A gathering of 10s of thousands from all across the globe is a lot different than hundreds from the local community.  Cancelling things like GDC, SXSW, Emerald Comic Con, etc all make a lot of sense.  They gather a large number of people from a large region.  I wouldn't cancel a local D&D con that only pulls in the local community unless there was a clear directive to do so.  A former coworker has a cruise scheduled in a few weeks down to Mexico.  I personally wouldn't go.  Again, too many people from too far of a region.

But, if work needed me to go to SF to meet with a vendor I'd probably do like Jake and drive over.  Work still needs to get done.  So I'll do it in a way that reduces my exposure and potential spread.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 11, 2020, 01:48:38 PM
I don't quite have that much luxury, but everyone is definitely ramping up their WFH.
One of the best jokes/observations I saw was basically "Now we get to find out which meetings really could have been an email"
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on March 11, 2020, 02:13:41 PM
I just got a cold... so now I feel like a leper. If I cough in public I'm going to get stink-eyed to death.

on the other hand, I could have the virus for all I know (please disinfect after reading my post).

For now I'm working from home. Even if it's not COVID 19 it's better not to spread whatever it is I have to my co-workers.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 11, 2020, 02:19:43 PM
I just got a cold... so now I feel like a leper. If I cough in public I'm going to get stink-eyed to death.

on the other hand, I could have the virus for all I know (please disinfect after reading my post).

For now I'm working from home. Even if it's not COVID 19 it's better not to spread whatever it is I have to my co-workers.

get well soon!

they say it's more appropriate to fart in public now than it is to cough.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 11, 2020, 02:39:36 PM
Wait, farting in public wasn't appropriate?  What am I suppose to do, hold it?

I feel ya, I'm just getting over a cold and the first day of symptoms was spent waiting at an airport.  Fortunately, I wasn't coughing theb
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 11, 2020, 04:40:57 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZFhjMQrVts
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 11, 2020, 05:02:21 PM
WHO just called it a pandemic - https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/world/coronavirus-news.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 11, 2020, 10:24:25 PM
Trump has suspended travel to Europe: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/coronavirus-trump-suspends-all-travel-from-europe.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 11, 2020, 11:11:46 PM
Trump has suspended travel to Europe: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/coronavirus-trump-suspends-all-travel-from-europe.html

yeah, holy shit. that's major.

is marshall law not far away if this shit doesn't stop. Here is hoping it gets unseasonably warm quick!
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 11, 2020, 11:38:54 PM
And the NBA has suspended the season.  Probably a good thing considering that they needs fans in seats to make money.

marshall law
Martial law

Trump has suspended travel to Europe: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/coronavirus-trump-suspends-all-travel-from-europe.html

yeah, holy shit. that's major.

is marshall law not far away if this shit doesn't stop. Here is hoping it gets unseasonably warm quick!
Wasn't travel suspended after the 9/11 attacks for awhile?

NOOOOO, it got Tom Hanks (https://twitter.com/tomhanks/status/1237909897020207104)
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 12, 2020, 06:24:38 AM
Our school's are sending home a 14-day "work from home" packet today and, while the have not closed the schools yet, there's is talk that a 2-week shut down is eminent. Especially if any other town in our county does first.   Thats gonna suck for child-care purposes.  My girlfriend got a robocall yesterday from her sons school that a teacher had been "in contact" with someone with the virus... but they didn't say which teacher.

Meanwhile, we have a mysterious meeting schedule at work today for all front-office staff.  Not sure what that's about. Guess I'll find out.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 12, 2020, 06:29:50 AM
NOOOOO, it got Tom Hanks (https://twitter.com/tomhanks/status/1237909897020207104)

Really interested to see how their recovery goes.  I think this is the first prominent case of a celebrity, no?  I would think, if they both make full recoveries in a timely manner, it will help alleviate some public fears and reinforce the whole "80% can just treat themselves at home and only 1-3% of cases result in death."  But then again, if one of them dies, I think it will contribute to the public panic significantly; especially in the media.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 12, 2020, 08:44:42 AM
I suspect schools will be closed here as early as tomorrow but definitely next week.  Rumor is that the only reason it hasn't happened yet is that the governor of Ohio is trying to clear red tape around school absences or something.  There have now been reports of kids in schools in the area being exposed to it or testing positive. 

There is a letter circulating from someone in Italy talking about how bad things really are there and how much worse it could get.  Doctors are basically doing war-time triage to determine who is going to get a ventilator.  That's some scary shit!
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 12, 2020, 10:00:20 AM
One thing to keep in mind with schools is that for some kids it is a major source of nutrition.  So when determining to close or not that is being taken into account.  In Nov 18 when there was that major fire in Paradise (the Camp Fire) schools closed for a few days and they had to set up a way to get the kids who needed it the food.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on March 12, 2020, 10:40:08 AM
My company just asked all employees worldwide to work from home unless being in the office is an absolute necessity.

Next week is March break at my kids' schools. There hasn't been any talk of closing them as there's only been one confirmed case in our region (from someone who had returned from Italy).
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 12, 2020, 11:03:35 AM
WHO just called it a pandemic - https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/world/coronavirus-news.html

A bunch of people did but most recently it was officially declared by the world health organization.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 12, 2020, 11:09:33 AM
One thing to keep in mind with schools is that for some kids it is a major source of nutrition.  So when determining to close or not that is being taken into account.  In Nov 18 when there was that major fire in Paradise (the Camp Fire) schools closed for a few days and they had to set up a way to get the kids who needed it the food.

Yeah, lots of bad effects of keeping everybody home. Not an easy decision. And of course there will almost certainly be a recession which makes stuff even harder.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on March 12, 2020, 02:29:17 PM
Some of the updates from work today:

a.   At the discretion of their direct supervisors, colleagues who can WFH will be encouraged to do so whenever possible.  If you qualify for WFH, you will hear more about this from your manager. We also encourage you to conduct meetings virtually whenever possible.  (this was already pretty much put into place last week)

b.   Commute transport.  [The Hospital] is contracting to provide multiple dedicated buses, initially for colleagues who commute to the Main Campus from [surrounding areas].  The buses have a capacity of 56 passengers but we will limit riders to 25, and ask that passengers sit separately.

c.   Child care support.  [The Hospital] is contracting with a proven service to provide in-home and facility-based care across the tri-state area.  More information will be provided in tomorrow’s update.


I'm very impressed with this response.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 12, 2020, 02:39:19 PM
Similar info as jKim from my employer.   For us front-office people, we're encouraged to work from home.  For the labor workers (the bulk of the company) it has been made clear that they should not worry about staying home if they are sick or have been exposed to anyone who is sick. This includes being allowed to borrow against and use un-accrued PTO time.

Meanwhile, my town followed suite with the state and just declared a public emergency and, as previously reported, kids are  coming home from school today with work packets to supposedly keep them busy for up to 2 weeks.  The presumption is that the school can/will close as early as tomorrow or next Monday.  For at least a 2 week period.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 12, 2020, 04:31:23 PM
Our governer just announced schools in Ohio will be closed for 3 weeks starting Monday.

On the flip side, my company has said anyone that feels uncomfortable CAN WFH but they have yet to step up and say it is encouraged.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 12, 2020, 04:47:18 PM
Since we are weeks away from launch, my boss is talking to his boss about the programmers WFH.  It needs to go one level higher but it looks like we are going to have our contractors WFH full time and then maintain a skeleton crew onsite.  Management is still so worried about us providing coverage even thought it is really rare we do anything like that.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 12, 2020, 09:16:54 PM
School in my town is officially closed "indefinitely" effective immediately, per the 6pm robo-call I got.  I talked to my brother who lives a little north of Indianapolis and his son's school is closed too.

It's weird how so much of this feels like the days after 9/11, but without all the sadness, patriotism or anger.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 12, 2020, 10:04:25 PM
Is the toilet paper shortage in your area as well, or is this a regional problem?
Everywhere is sold out - super markets, walmart... i'm down to one roll.  This is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 12, 2020, 10:53:03 PM
We did buy a few extra things a few weeks ago, including toilet paper, and there was still plenty of stuff. But the events of the last couple days might have changed that.

Time to learn how to use a tabo.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 12, 2020, 10:57:18 PM
I just got a bidet attachment for the master bath.

Our church just cancelled all events based on the governor's proclamation and the DHS advisories.  The state is also relaxing some of the rules surrounding the Brown act to allow for easier setup of teleconference meetings.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 12, 2020, 11:00:45 PM
Our church just cancelled all events

a reminder, if you give regularly to your church*, make sure you continue to do so when not attending.**  Their general operating budget and community involvement is depending on you


*i do not
** I don't do this either
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 12, 2020, 11:11:04 PM
Our pledges are taken out monthly.

I do wonder what will happen to this month's community partner.  We split the Sunday offering with an different organization per month.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 12, 2020, 11:44:04 PM
Is the toilet paper shortage in your area as well, or is this a regional problem?
Everywhere is sold out - super markets, walmart... i'm down to one roll.  This is ridiculous.

I think everyone around here is out. Here is a suggestion: flush-able wet wipes. Get them tonight or tomorrow morning because I'm sure they will be gone once people start thinking that way. Walmart has a good deal on the 5 pack.

Another suggestion, if you can go take out some cash from the bank - another week of negative gains on the Street and people will be doing a run on banks. Cash will be king again.

Bear minimum, Micah - go get some ramen so that it can last you 2 or 3 weeks - but I hear they are getting short on that as well.

I am of the mind set that it is better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

Some things us boys might not think about: female hygiene products. Tampons can serve multiple purposes.

Toothpaste. Shampoo. Shit like that is important too.

Essential medicine - stock up - this will run out next. If your life depends on it  - make sure you have plenty - I would say 6 months worth.

I doubt it will come to the point that we will "run out" of water - this is far reaching, but hey, have about a 100L handy.

And once you have water and some dry food, ensure you have an alternate way to heat it.

Ammo - whatever makes you comfortable - but it doesn't get old and it doesn't need to be fed.

Speaking of feeding - if you have pets, get food for them for at least a month.

I dunno, even some of my friends (and my wife!) make fun of me for "prepping" - but damn, it sure does make me feel comfortable now. And my wife is thankful too.

Its still not too late - I think you still have at least a week to get your shit in order and your family ready. You don't want to be reliant on the government in times of need.

Power generation and fuel - again, highly unlikely that we will not have power, but there are other situations like bad storms, that knock out our power once or twice a year. A generator is a very practical thing to have. Even a small one to run your fridge and sump pump (in my case). But if you have a generator make sure you have plenty of gas.

I can talk about this shit all day. Let me know if you need some other suggestions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 12, 2020, 11:54:21 PM
Our kids school is closed starting Monday through April 3rd.  And then they WILL have their normal spring break at the end of that.  So literally a month off of school.  Crazy.  This is getting nuts.  We got groceries tonight.  We are pretty stocked up.  We had toilet paper from a BJs run a bit ago.  I think we're good but if things get crazy we will need to stock up again in about 2 weeks on some stuff.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 12, 2020, 11:54:57 PM
I think everyone around here is out. Here is a suggestion: flush-able wet wipes. Get them tonight or tomorrow morning because I'm sure they will be gone once people start thinking that way. Walmart has a good deal on the 5 pack.

Everything I've seen has said the flushable wipes really shouldn't be flushed.  They don't break up well enough and will still cause clogs.

Better than nothing for a short amount of time though.

Quote
Bear minimum, Micah - go get some ramen so that it can last you 2 or 3 weeks - but I hear they are getting short on that as well.
Bare minimum: The smallest possible quantity or the least fulfilling, but still adequate, condition that is required, acceptable, or suitable for some purpose.

Bear minimum: The smallest bear

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 12, 2020, 11:57:47 PM
So, awhile ago I stumbled on a Youtube channel about 18th century cooking.  And while I haven't gone hard core on watching it I have been more keen on it with what is going on.

Like, here is a really simple recipe from 1808:
Take an onion, leave the skins on, and roast it.  Consume with salt and maybe some butter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV9spqCzSkQ
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: KnuckleBuckett on March 13, 2020, 06:11:27 AM
Townsed rocks.  The vids can be a little too shallow sometimes but they are all pretty good.  He recommends some cool reads.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on March 13, 2020, 09:02:07 AM
Our county's schools are closed for 2 weeks starting this coming Monday. I'm not sure about Spring Break (April 10-17).

Our daycare usually follows suit for emergency school closings (snow) but still no word on what they might do. The whole facility is YMCA, so I'm afraid if the gym/community center part of it closes or reduces capacity that the daycare part will also have to do so.


Our church is moving to online services (sermons) for the next 3 weeks because the college we rent from is pausing classes and thus access to buildings to outside renters. And my giving is all done online anyway which I do not intend on suspending unless I'm on an unpaid furlough.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on March 13, 2020, 10:56:04 AM
Our schools are closed for three weeks as well, although next week is actually march break so it's only two weeks of closure.

And yeah, toilet paper is totally cleared out from all stores. Luckily have a full pack un-opened and I ordered an extra from Amazon. It should have been delivered yesterday, but I can see at least it's shipped.

My daughters birthday party is tomorrow... we've been debating if we should cancel, but being that the kids are all in school today it doesn't seem like it's much worse for a few of them to get together tomorrow.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 13, 2020, 04:19:35 PM
I think you should have the party, but go over the top to show the kids and their parents that you're doing your best to mitigate viral transmissions.  Have hand sanitizer out, and lysol wipes on the tables.  Serve the cake (perhaps with gloves) and don't let individuals get their own food out of communal bowls etc.

I don't think it would be out of line to ask parents to not bring any child who is currently ill of any cold/virus/flu symptoms.

Make everybody wash their hands before eating and after any activities. 

I think that should be the new normal going forward indefinitely.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on March 13, 2020, 04:26:59 PM
I think you should have the party, but go over the top to show the kids and their parents that you're doing your best to mitigate viral transmissions.  Have hand sanitizer out, and lysol wipes on the tables.  Serve the cake (perhaps with gloves) and don't let individuals get their own food out of communal bowls etc.

I don't think it would be out of line to ask parents to not bring any child who is currently ill of any cold/virus/flu symptoms.

Make everybody wash their hands before eating and after any activities. 

I think that should be the new normal going forward indefinitely.


Yeah, we're doing basically all of that. We've already emailed the parents and said it's fine if you don't want to come, we can do a playdate after the apocalypse. We've also said please don't come if you have meet any of the criteria the government laid out on their website (symptoms, contact with a sick person, travel to a level 3 zone, etc...). We luckily just got some hand sanitizer from my mother-in-law since it's not possible to buy it anywhere.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 13, 2020, 04:30:15 PM
well handled!   and happy birthday to your daughter!
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 13, 2020, 07:11:08 PM
I think you should have the party, but go over the top to show the kids and their parents that you're doing your best to mitigate viral transmissions.  Have hand sanitizer out, and lysol wipes on the tables.  Serve the cake (perhaps with gloves) and don't let individuals get their own food out of communal bowls etc.

I don't think it would be out of line to ask parents to not bring any child who is currently ill of any cold/virus/flu symptoms.

Make everybody wash their hands before eating and after any activities. 

I think that should be the new normal going forward indefinitely.

Considering that kids are disease vectors on a good day that seems a good idea even without Covid.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 13, 2020, 07:19:32 PM
Our school district just closed the schools for students but still expect employees to go in.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 13, 2020, 07:34:42 PM
Illinois closed all schools through end of march
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 13, 2020, 11:00:28 PM
Same here. Teachers have to go in next week to work on plans for tele-teaching.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 14, 2020, 11:28:37 PM
We are starting quarantine tomorrow. Just have to get to the cabin, which means one gas stop - after that, we are keeping to ourselves for the next few weeks to see what happens.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 15, 2020, 12:47:24 AM
Thanks, Jake. That's a great idea since you have the option available.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 15, 2020, 12:50:57 AM
Yeah, a cabin in the woods sounds really good right now (and not just for COVID)
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 15, 2020, 03:12:15 PM
The governor in Ohio is now saying schools may not open for the rest of the academic year.  Like holy shit.  I went to run some errands this morning and staples like bread, meat, and a few other things were almost completely gone.  This is crazy!
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 15, 2020, 03:48:19 PM
If shit continues to escalate like it is, I predict that the next thing will be a run on cash and gas. Prepare.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 15, 2020, 04:19:26 PM
I’m not so sure on cash and gas. Didn’t the fed just make moves to help prevent bank collapses? And with the Russia-Saudi Arabia oil price war thing I expect gas prices and availability to be fine.


On a separate note I went to a grocery store for the first time in a week. It was reasonably stocked but they were out of Spam and the entire aisle of toilet paper and paper towels and Kleenex wasn’t wiped out.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 15, 2020, 06:14:58 PM
I went yesterday and the bread was all but gone.

The one area I feel under prepared is fruits and veggies.  I almost always eat/consume fresh and I just don't know how to stock up several weeks worth without it going bad.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on March 15, 2020, 06:34:05 PM
Fed rate cut to 0.

NYC schools shutting down in-person classes until 4/20.

Hospital operations is suspending non-essential care. (I don't know what that means for me, but I know I'm already deemed essential staff.)

What a time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 15, 2020, 06:45:29 PM
NYC schools shutting down in-person classes until 4/20.
Are they going to have a giant smoke out to celebrate?


We received word that our school is closing until 4/13.  Technically we are only closing 3 weeks since the week of 4/6 is spring break.  Our teachers are expected to meet virtually with families.  Even though we are an independent study school we are closing so that if the families need to take time to address any coronavirus issues they can do so without penalty.  The management meet yesterday to determine the game plan and the office staff is going in tomorrow to and will be told how it affects their department.  The programming team is going full telecommute most likely (that is what our manager said on Friday) and only two of us on the team are going in tomorrow and mainly to assist in distributing technology.


BTW, this article is pretty interesting: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/?utm_source=reddit.com
The data visualizing and the simulations were pretty cool
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 15, 2020, 07:56:51 PM
I’m not so sure on cash and gas. Didn’t the fed just make moves to help prevent bank collapses? And with the Russia-Saudi Arabia oil price war thing I expect gas prices and availability to be fine.

I think that gas will be "available" - but people that man the gas stations, and the truck drivers that deliver it, might not be available to do their jobs because of being quarantined. Whatever happens, I did fill up a 55 gallon drum today, just in case.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 15, 2020, 07:59:53 PM
Fed rate cut to 0.

kinda weird to think about it, but might be a good time to consider refinancing - I missed the first rate cut that ended early last week, but a 10 year mortgage was as low as 2.6!
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 15, 2020, 08:02:40 PM
The one area I feel under prepared is fruits and veggies.  I almost always eat/consume fresh and I just don't know how to stock up several weeks worth without it going bad.

Yes, I am thinking of this as well. We have some frozen, but that just isn't the same. I hope this doesn't last for a long time, but I will be starting a small aquaponics farm this week. Let me know if you want me to document it. Whatever happens, it will be a fun experiment.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 15, 2020, 08:42:57 PM
I did a hydroponics last year and we are about ready to start it up this year.  But that'll be tomato, squash, and herbs.  Leafy greens didn't do well last year and the system I have doesn't do well with root veggies like carrots and potatoes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 15, 2020, 09:08:25 PM
I went yesterday and the bread was all but gone.

The one area I feel under prepared is fruits and veggies.  I almost always eat/consume fresh and I just don't know how to stock up several weeks worth without it going bad.

Frozen isn't fresh but it's just as nutritious and should keep for awhile.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 15, 2020, 10:35:51 PM
I went yesterday and the bread was all but gone.

The one area I feel under prepared is fruits and veggies.  I almost always eat/consume fresh and I just don't know how to stock up several weeks worth without it going bad.

Frozen isn't fresh but it's just as nutritious and should keep for awhile.


But the taste.  /snob

BTW Jake, a lesson I learned last year is to keep a spare pump and lots of spare chemicals.  The plants can go from great to terrible in a day if they don't have the water and chemicals (food).
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 15, 2020, 11:00:41 PM
I went yesterday and the bread was all but gone.

The one area I feel under prepared is fruits and veggies.  I almost always eat/consume fresh and I just don't know how to stock up several weeks worth without it going bad.

Frozen isn't fresh but it's just as nutritious and should keep for awhile.


But the taste.  /snob

BTW Jake, a lesson I learned last year is to keep a spare pump and lots of spare chemicals.  The plants can go from great to terrible in a day if they don't have the water and chemicals (food).

I will be doing aquaponics - so nutrients pre mixed in water.

BTW - how did you start your seedlings, did you do them in dirt?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 15, 2020, 11:05:58 PM
How many of you have a generator? that would be a good thing to pick up whatever the case might be. Costco has a very nice two fuel unit that sometimes is on sale for like $500. Propane and regular gas fuel.

That's where I'm lacking - we have a generator, but it is relatively small and low power. Good enough to power a couple fridges and a water pump. If we don't end up selling the cabin I will be investing in solar and a better generator.

Also, once you have a generator, make sure you have plenty of extension cords and a way to power up various devices - like the furnace, for example.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 15, 2020, 11:08:45 PM
There is a run on ammo - if that matters to you - I wanted to pick up a few more boxes for my AK and couldn't find any last week. I placed an order online, it said it was in stock - I wonder when it will come.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 15, 2020, 11:40:58 PM
I will be doing aquaponics - so nutrients pre mixed in water.

BTW - how did you start your seedlings, did you do them in dirt?
I cheated and bought saplings then washed the dirt out of the roots before wrapping them in rockwool.  I plan on doing that again this year.  The kit I got does have a setup for growing seeds in rockwool with some stabilizer.  But you have to start that pretty early.

How many of you have a generator? that would be a good thing to pick up whatever the case might be. Costco has a very nice two fuel unit that sometimes is on sale for like $500. Propane and regular gas fuel.

That's where I'm lacking - we have a generator, but it is relatively small and low power. Good enough to power a couple fridges and a water pump. If we don't end up selling the cabin I will be investing in solar and a better generator.

Also, once you have a generator, make sure you have plenty of extension cords and a way to power up various devices - like the furnace, for example.
No generator here.  But at the same time it would take a massive natural disaster to take out power for a significant amount of time.  We just don't get the seasonal weather to warrant one.  We looked at one after moving in since we have the room but it just hasn't made sense yet.

A more long term investment might be roof solar panels and one of the Tesla house batteries.  In the aforementioned Camp Fire there was a house that lost power but had a solar setup.  They reported that they didn't dip below 60%.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 16, 2020, 10:01:17 AM
Went to get groceries yesterday.  Bread was pretty much wiped out along with meats.  Plenty of veggies and fruits though.  Most of the stores around here have instituted a '1 per customer' limit on things like TP, sanitizers, etc.  So there was some of that stuff left.

The governor has already said the rest of the academic year may just be cancelled.  No official statement on that yet but he's thinking worst case.

We don't have a generator but I don't fear that being an issue.  This isn't due to a natural disaster and unless all the people that work in the power plants suddenly kick it, I don't think we have much to fear there.  I think we've lost power maybe twice in the 14 years that we've lived here and I think at least one of those times was due to a car accident.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 16, 2020, 10:11:16 AM
John Oliver was more useful than Trump's address: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_066dEkycr4
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 16, 2020, 11:08:08 AM
Quote
I think we've lost power maybe twice in the 14 years that we've lived here

wow, we lose power twice a year! at least. Mainly during ice storms. Actually, we lose power more in Chicago than our cabin - isn't that about a bitch?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 16, 2020, 11:18:45 AM
Last night in Massachusetts, where my girlfriend lives, they closed all dine-in restaurants/bars for the next month.  They also prohibited any gathering greater than 25 people. Pretty sure that'll happen here in Connecticut soon.
At work, they told all front office staff that doesn't have to be here (like me) to stay home. Of course, I didn't read that memo and I'm here today. LOL.  But I had already planned to be out the next few days anyway.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on March 16, 2020, 02:05:14 PM
Pretty sure that'll happen here in Connecticut soon.
NY, NJ, CT announced together that non-essential businesses will close at 8pm and will be limiting gatherings to 50 people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 16, 2020, 02:08:08 PM
Pretty sure that'll happen here in Connecticut soon.
NY, NJ, CT announced together that non-essential businesses will close at 8pm and will be limiting gatherings to 50 people.

yeah, i saw that about 10 minutes after I posted. LOL.  I get it...but it sucks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 16, 2020, 02:18:09 PM
@Jake - that sucks.  I know other people in the area that aren't so lucky but our power has been wildly consistent even in the worst of storms.

The restrictions on bars/restaurants and travel apply to Ohio as well.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 16, 2020, 03:37:42 PM
so, asking for a friend... how do you feed your kids if you eat out every night and can't cook at home?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 16, 2020, 04:05:37 PM
So, the CDC is saying that school closures don't have an impact: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/considerations-for-school-closure.pdf
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 16, 2020, 04:15:53 PM
so, asking for a friend... how do you feed your kids if you eat out every night and can't cook at home?
Is the friend:

1. Unknowledgeable about cooking?
2. Missing the equipment to cook?
3. Unmotivated to cook?
4. Other?

#2 is hard because without some basic equipment cooking at home really sucks.  #1 can be solved by reading recipes and youtube videos.  Just look for beginner recipes.  #3 is probably a much bigger conversation.

Roasting veggies isn't hard:
1. Oven to 350 - 400
2. Cut veggies and drizzle olive oil and season with salt and pepper
3. Put in oven for 30 minutes turning once halfway through.  Adjust time based on how done you like things.

That basic recipe can be used for broccoli, carrots, asparagus, potatoes (cut into small pieces), and more.

Meat (beef, chicken, pork) basic recipe:
1. Skillet to medium heat
2. Season meat with salt and pepper (or other seasonings if you have them)
3. When pan is hot add olive oil and let that heat up.
4. Add meat to pan turning every 3-4 minutes (to keep a side from burning) until done.

I'd say about half my dinners are some variant of that.  For kids picky kids I have no idea sorry.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 16, 2020, 04:23:02 PM
Roasted veggies are delicious. Highly recommend.

For the less motivated among us, they sell vegetables in a bag (frozen or fresh) that you can microwave for 5 minutes and my kids actually eat them. They're lower on flavor and you sometimes need to give them an extra minute so they're soft enough for your kids to like, but I've found it to be a great option.

Similarly, in the food board we've had discussions about what we eat and a lot of those suggestions still apply, including easy to prepare frozen stuff from Trader Joe's (teriyaki chicken is a current favorite). Be careful with too much of the frozen dinner stuff because a lot of it is really unhealthy (frozen pizzas) so more than once or twice a week is probably not ideal. Generally I find Trader Joe's's stuff to be not too bad in that department.

Finally, most restaurants that you used to eat at are still open for take out food, so if you must you can still order take out.

 
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 16, 2020, 05:04:05 PM
BTW the https://www.mccormick.com/spices-and-flavors/herbs-and-spices/blends/perfect-pinch-vegetable-seasoning is a great general purpose seasoning for vegetables that need a bit of something.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 16, 2020, 05:37:03 PM
So, the CDC is saying that school closures don't have an impact: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/considerations-for-school-closure.pdf
I think your understanding of that document and my understanding are different.  I read that short term closures don't have a big impact but the jury is still out on longer closures.  Also, that document contradicts itself by saying school closures aren't as effective as social isolation.... but in a lot of ways they are the same.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 16, 2020, 05:42:25 PM
Also: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/?utm_source=reddit.com
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 16, 2020, 06:18:57 PM
So, the CDC is saying that school closures don't have an impact: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/considerations-for-school-closure.pdf
I think your understanding of that document and my understanding are different.  I read that short term closures don't have a big impact but the jury is still out on longer closures.  Also, that document contradicts itself by saying school closures aren't as effective as social isolation.... but in a lot of ways they are the same.
Yeah I read the bit about longer closures.  But considering all I'm hearing about is 3 week closures and the document talked about as a short term closure I didn't think the differentiation is needed.

Also: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/?utm_source=reddit.com
Loved that article and simulators.

I'm on board with the closures even if the evidence isn't strong.  As one superintendent said (paraphrasing) "We will never know if we did too much, we'll definitely know if we did too little"
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 16, 2020, 09:56:30 PM
so, asking for a friend... how do you feed your kids if you eat out every night and can't cook at home?

I think you can still do delivery and carry out, can't you?

I also wanted to point you to this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003OB4D46/
but they are all sold out. holy shit! Ramen is sold out
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 16, 2020, 09:59:22 PM
so, asking for a friend... how do you feed your kids if you eat out every night and can't cook at home?
Is the friend:

1. Unknowledgeable about cooking?
2. Missing the equipment to cook?
3. Unmotivated to cook?
4. Other?

#2 is hard because without some basic equipment cooking at home really sucks.  #1 can be solved by reading recipes and youtube videos.  Just look for beginner recipes.  #3 is probably a much bigger conversation.

Roasting veggies isn't hard:
1. Oven to 350 - 400
2. Cut veggies and drizzle olive oil and season with salt and pepper
3. Put in oven for 30 minutes turning once halfway through.  Adjust time based on how done you like things.

That basic recipe can be used for broccoli, carrots, asparagus, potatoes (cut into small pieces), and more.

Meat (beef, chicken, pork) basic recipe:
1. Skillet to medium heat
2. Season meat with salt and pepper (or other seasonings if you have them)
3. When pan is hot add olive oil and let that heat up.
4. Add meat to pan turning every 3-4 minutes (to keep a side from burning) until done.

I'd say about half my dinners are some variant of that.  For kids picky kids I have no idea sorry.

That is a good post. the only thing I would change is cooking meat on olive oil - olive oil should not get very hot, and at least when I cook most meat, I like the temperature pretty high. Use vegetable oil or something like that instead.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 16, 2020, 10:00:39 PM
For the less motivated among us, they sell vegetables in a bag (frozen or fresh) that you can microwave for 5 minutes and my kids actually eat them. They're lower on flavor and you sometimes need to give them an extra minute so they're soft enough for your kids to like, but I've found it to be a great option.

and add a teaspoon of butter - mmmmm
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 16, 2020, 10:02:35 PM
I'm thawing out some rainbow trout I got last October and we'll have a fish fry tomorrow. Coupled with some 'slaw.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 16, 2020, 11:35:31 PM
I cook most things on medium or lower heat so olive oil works great for me.  I feel like I get more consistent results that way.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: KnuckleBuckett on March 17, 2020, 06:06:46 AM
Can't sear on medium to low heat...

Two excellent channels for us carnivores.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfE5Cz44GlZVyoaYTHJbuZw

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpFuaxD-0PKLolFR3gWhrMw
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 17, 2020, 08:48:25 AM
Let's not turn this into a food thread.  That said, the medium setting on my range with my pans produce the cooking results I'm happy with.  And for a novice cook I would always recommend a slower but more forgiving process.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 17, 2020, 07:40:34 PM
Looks like the CA Legislature passed an emergency funding bill for schools.  They are shifting the attendance date for the second half of the year from mid April to end of February if the school closed in terms with the executive order.  It also says the intent is that schools pays their employees and contractors as would if they hadn't closed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 17, 2020, 08:45:58 PM
my wife's job gave everyone an additional 80 hours of PTO - whether they need it during this time or not.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 17, 2020, 09:28:31 PM
That's awesome.

On the local subreddit some of the city workers are saying they have to burn PTO if they are unable to work from home (which not everyone is) and if they run out they have to go leave without pay.  Which means they'll be charged for their benefits.  That is beyond fucked up.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 17, 2020, 11:09:29 PM
https://youtu.be/tmhsNdW24BM

If you have a short attention span start at 13:55
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on March 18, 2020, 06:39:23 AM
The imperial college study that turned a lot of the response around: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1239975682643357696.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 18, 2020, 06:51:06 AM
The imperial college study that turned a lot of the response around: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1239975682643357696.html

That's what the video I linked to talks about as well
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on March 18, 2020, 08:47:39 AM
The imperial college study that turned a lot of the response around: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1239975682643357696.html

That's what the video I linked to talks about as well

From what I heard, that's what I thought as well, but the video is reaalllly long.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 18, 2020, 09:18:53 AM
The imperial college study that turned a lot of the response around: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1239975682643357696.html

That's what the video I linked to talks about as well

From what I heard, that's what I thought as well, but the video is reaalllly long.

it is. I almost fell asleep twiced last night while listening to it :D but the guy seems to be pretty spot on since this thing started
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 18, 2020, 10:25:15 AM
The article was much much better than the video.

tl;dr / tl;dw: So, we're all fucked for a good long while.

On a positive note, it looks like the oldest boomers are ignoring the most of the advice and still going out.  So, they'll die off and stop holding us back.  (/evil /s)
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 18, 2020, 11:23:23 AM
So we have a new hire that just hasn't ramped up to the level we want and the contractors we've hired at about the same time have.  So, we were seriously considering letting him go.  But now, that  just kind of sucks even more.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 19, 2020, 09:41:14 PM
How are your kids' doing while at home? Our school started e-Learning this Tuesday and so far so good! my son's teacher(s) are doing an awesome job. My daughter's teacher is a little older (but not much, maybe like 7/10 years older than me) and she is doing OK. My son's instructions each morning are quite detailed and many activities are "interactive". My daughter basically has a list of 5 to 7 things she needs to do. Each day it takes them between 3 to 5 hours to complete everything (including the "may-do" assignments) - they seem to like it. And so do I. We are treating each day like it would be regular school. They get up at the same time, have breakfast, get dressed and start school around 9. Then I make them at noon and they go out side (not today because it was raining/sleeting).

Looks like this will be the norm through April - at least that is what Chicago public schools just announced and the suburban districts often follow what CPS does. I anticipate that they will not go to school for the rest of the school year.

How does it look in your neck of the woods?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 19, 2020, 09:43:13 PM
We have fiber here at the cabin, and I was paying for the lowest bandwidth - but with everyone using it now, it was not enough - a quick phone call, and $24 more a month and we are at double the speed almost with a snap! sweet.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 19, 2020, 09:50:27 PM
we're still holding at "through the end of march" for school...but the national trend is obviously increasing that.  My brother's in Indianpolis and his whole state is now May 1st for a return date.

I'm supposed to be visiting my parents with the girls for easter. Its only a 5 hour drive....but they're thinking of canceling.  Plus, they see all this stuff on facebook and are pretty much convinced that by then, the whole nation will be locked down and you wont be able to cross state borders. 

part of me wants to roll my eyes and assume they're crazy....but then again, all of this is so freaking crazy already.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 19, 2020, 09:59:05 PM
The CA governor made a comment that we should be prepared for schools not to return until after the summer.  While we don't know that will be for sure we are already preparing as though that will be the case.  I would think you'd want to at least have that in mind as well.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 19, 2020, 10:24:10 PM
Yeah, that's been our assumption for awhile as well. Obviously would be great if they re-opened this school year but I'm not holding my breath.

My kids are doing fine with distance learning. The older one is doing great.. ahead of schedule on her work. That's odd because she tends to be a procrastinator but I think it's just that the work is fairly easy at the moment so it is more like 2 hours of work instead of 3-5.

My younger one is treating this more like a sick day where she does 30 minutes of work then goofs off the rest of the day. We've got to nag her a bit more and now I'm going to have her write down all assignments so we can make sure she's keeping up. I'm not worried about her academically I just don't want her to get away with not doing the minimal amount of work here.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on March 20, 2020, 09:00:34 AM
Our schools aren't doing e-learning (well, at least for my daughter in grad 1). My wife put together a detailed daily schedule with a mix of academic activities, outside play, piano practice, etc...  My daughter is also writing a daily journal about what they do on the morning walk. It's really good but hard to keep them to it. My wife takes it really seriously while I'm a bit more relaxed (which is a problem)...

My kids need activities or they go insane. So keeping them busy is good.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 20, 2020, 10:21:42 AM
Our kids have a few hours of work per day to do.  They've been pretty good about it, especially my daughter... who, like charlie's daughter, tends to be a procrastinator.  I've got them both setup in the basement with computers and they don't like all the work but they're doing it.  I don't know what's going to happen so we're just assuming it will be like this for a while and we're trying to form a routine.  They definitely spend a fair amount of time watching YouTube or playing games but they're doing more learning and school work than I expected.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on March 20, 2020, 10:34:17 AM
https://neherlab.org/covid19/
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 20, 2020, 11:01:43 AM
trying to form a routine. 

routine will be key. Kids, whether they know it or not, like routine. There is safety in routine. They have routine at school. So instituting routine at home during this time will be very important for the success of eLearning.

My daughter's SEL (social-emotional learning) assignment today was to do two chores - she washed the dishes after breakfast (we don't have a dish washer at the cabin) and vacuumed. Then she took pictures with her chrome book - bam! first assignment done.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 20, 2020, 11:24:48 AM
Yesterday I installed the pump on the fuel drum - made in the USA baby!
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 20, 2020, 04:17:01 PM
Illinois issues a stay at home order starting tomorrow afternoon until at least April 7th.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 21, 2020, 01:13:56 AM
Holy shit. Have you seen some of the car offers? Gmc is doing 84 months at 0 percent and home delivery on sierra 1500. Others are doing similar things
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 21, 2020, 10:05:12 AM
Thanks for the heads up.  We've been meaning to replace the wife's car.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on March 21, 2020, 08:07:13 PM
NJ has also placed a stay at home order effective today.

Annnnnd I'm still going into work.


We were totally looking at the car offers last week. Very tempting. We're probably going to hold out until there are offers with cash rebates
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 21, 2020, 09:45:39 PM
another thing that we can take advantage of now is the mortgage rates. We might refinance to 10 years - the rate was like 2.6 a few days ago
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 21, 2020, 10:56:35 PM
https://youtu.be/AoLw-Q8X174

Coincidence?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on March 21, 2020, 11:31:20 PM
Oh jfc my co-worker's test came back positive
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 22, 2020, 12:04:17 AM
Oh jfc my co-worker's test came back positive

Oh shit. How close is this coworker. I guess it doesn't matter. Hang in there and keep us posted
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 22, 2020, 01:33:59 AM
Oddly enough we refinanced right before all of this hit and got 2.875 on a 15 year.  I considered a 10 year but he said the rate wasn't any better.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: KnuckleBuckett on March 22, 2020, 05:14:35 AM
G'luck Jen.  Now what?

State is shutting lots of places my company has killed all facilities globally for a couple weeks except our lab.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on March 22, 2020, 10:59:36 AM
Coworker and I share an 8x10 office. I was initially advised by occupational health that I could come in if I'm asymptomatic but I think that was before they knew I had the ability to wfh. I asked about it and both of my bosses agreed that would be a good idea. By next week I'll have been clear from the 2 week incubation period and probably will go into work alternating with my coworker wfh so we don't have to share the same space again (this had been planned before his test result came back). I probably won't qualify to get testing anywhere unless I feel sick.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on March 22, 2020, 01:56:41 PM
That sucks jkim :(  It seems crazy that you can't just work from home full time...


In other news, I went to the grocery store today. It was pretty empty, though they did have a security guard at front with the intent of limiting the number of people in the store at a time. At the checkouts they were spacing people out so that they weren't lined up close together (though there were basically no lines while I was there).

They had tons of food. Fruits and veggies were almost overflowing off the shelves. Everything in stock except toilet paper and lysol wipes. They were low on pasta and frozen veggies, but had some. Lot's of meat and chicken. Overall, pretty easy to find everything we need.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 22, 2020, 04:51:44 PM
That sucks jkim :(  It seems crazy that you can't just work from home full time...

Agreed... like if you can work from home then you should be all the time regardless, but if your office mate tests positive?!
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 23, 2020, 12:58:26 PM
jen, update?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on March 23, 2020, 01:49:00 PM
I personally feel fairly healthy, barring what appears to be seasonal allergies. Sauyee has a weird cough, but he almost always has a weird cough. None of us have fevers.

I work in a hospital so it's definitely very helpful if I'm there physically to do work. This week being home means I won't be able to do a lot of in-lab work without taking someone away from their regular full time job. Moving forward, my coworker and I will be alternating who works from home and works in the office so that at least one of us is around to handle any in-person triage. Additionally, I'll be taking a point to point hospital specific shuttle bus meaning no more public transport and transfers.

I'll be at work on Sunday for a 9AM upgrade and the following Monday to ensure the lab is still running as expected after the upgrade and to discuss future planning with my coworker if he's in then. I have no idea when he'll actually return to work though. Per CDC guidelines, he needs to feel better (no fever without use of fever-reducing meds and improvement of respiratory symptoms) for at least 3 days before being able to return to work.

Not sure what we're going to do with the toddler on days I'm going into work. Husband works from home 100% but it's hard for him to get work done with a toddler in his lap. At least when we're both home, we can alternate whose lap he's in.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 23, 2020, 09:08:36 PM
Feel like they should be testing him after those three days to ensure he still isn't shedding the virus before returning to work.  Especially at a hospital.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on March 24, 2020, 08:05:57 AM
The virus testing option is that he has 2 consecutive negatives over >24 hours without other symptoms.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 25, 2020, 09:02:13 AM
For those with kids, our school put together a Curriculum & Activity Resources for Virtual Learning spreadsheet that might be of use to you all: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zUWcmSRJaZtb5kleKqmiUqiZ4_P1-uPMypVvwIhphjA/edit?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 25, 2020, 11:38:07 AM
For those with kids, our school put together a Curriculum & Activity Resources for Virtual Learning spreadsheet that might be of use to you all: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zUWcmSRJaZtb5kleKqmiUqiZ4_P1-uPMypVvwIhphjA/edit?usp=sharing

very cool. thanks, Mike
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 26, 2020, 10:19:49 AM
interesting

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/22/world/coronavirus-spread.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on March 26, 2020, 10:42:59 AM
Cool visualization.

Part II is going to much more sad :( 
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 26, 2020, 11:11:01 AM
That is wildly interesting.  Thanks for sharing that!
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 26, 2020, 11:34:59 AM
holy cow!

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/26/821580191/unemployment-claims-expected-to-shatter-records
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 26, 2020, 12:29:26 PM
Not sure why that's a holy cow... people are getting laid off everywhere.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 26, 2020, 12:55:39 PM
Not sure why that's a holy cow... people are getting laid off everywhere.

The numbers are staggering. And in such short time. That graph is an awesome visualization. So yeah, holy cow!
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 26, 2020, 09:50:05 PM
what do you guys think of the stimulus/emergency bill that looks like it will be passed shortly? Who will we borrowing from to make it happen? we need it, that's for sure - but will it stop a depression? how many more bills like this can we afford?

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 26, 2020, 10:25:25 PM
Seems like most countries are doing it and most of them are more aggressive than us.  Canada promised 2K to every taxpayer for every month we're in this thing.  From what I heard the US version is a one time deal.  I don't think it will prevent a depression.  Too much has been lost already.  It will take a while to make that back up.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 26, 2020, 11:03:38 PM
yeah, too little too late.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I'll take the money.  But even the patriots have a better chance of rebuilding in the next year than our economy does.

So many business are closing and so many will never reopen.  They just can't.  Even major chains, like The Cheesecake Factory, said they don't have the cash flow to make rent on their locations.  Other dining chains that were allowed to stay open for take out are closing anyway (like Red Robin) because it's not worth staying open.

My girlfriend works for a regional chain of hardware and pet stores.  They're allowed to stay open as they provide necessary consumer commodities...but after everyone stocked up the first week, business is way way way down.  On top of that, they decided to do curb-side pickup instead of having foot traffic in store.  The cost of paying employees, in some locations, exceeds the net income to the store.  My girlfriend, who can see all stores real-time sales figures, said that one store GROSSED less than $1,000 a day this week.

When this is all over, the survivors are going to be the mega corporations that were allowed to remain open and could handle the costs associated with doing business during the pandemic.  Walmart, Target, CVS, Walgreens, Amazon... they all have CEO's on the presidential task force and they're all actually staffing UP and giving raises and bonuses to employees (as they should)--- all the while, smaller chains simply can not compete. 

Retail margins are low - restaurants are even lower.  I don't see our local "country dinner" (thats the name) which closed last week ever reopening.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on March 27, 2020, 08:07:13 AM
>Canada promised 2K to every taxpayer for every month we're in this thing.

Yeah, for everyone that has lost all income. It's nice that anyone can qualify, even if they don't qualify for EI. This means contractors and self-employed people too who haven't necessarily been paying into the EI program.

My wife has probably lost about half of her income, which really sucks. She is still making some money so she doesn't qualify for the government help.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 27, 2020, 09:02:42 AM
Ah, that's different than what I heard.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on March 27, 2020, 10:03:50 AM
Yeah that's what I understand from a first glance at reading the site, hopefully I'm wrong and she does qualify for something.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 27, 2020, 10:49:22 AM
Denmark is covering 75% of employees salaries https://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/how-denmark-got-ahead-of-the-covid-19-economic-crisis/

I wonder how long they can sustain that for - sure they are a super small country, but wow.

The measures being taken by all these countries just point at how really negative the outlook for this is. :(
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 27, 2020, 11:39:25 AM
One thing that is kind of annoying about these stimulus plans (and taxes in general) is that they never adjust for cost of living.  The US is huge and has a lot of diverse economies so treating monolithically is sometimes frustrating.

Fortunately, both my wife and I are still full time employed and it doesn't look to be changing so we don't really need it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 27, 2020, 01:03:59 PM
Yeah Mike... I thought that too.  COL is massively different depending on where you live.  This 'one size fits all' thing sucks but at least it's better than nothing for some.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 27, 2020, 04:53:40 PM
Honestly I'm "happy" with the U.S. response so far relative to expectations. Seems like Republicans were a lot more open to certain types of relief than they were in 2008-09. I think the unemployment benefits are big in that it allows businesses to lay off workers for now and hire them back later, although you all are right about the fixed costs being a significant hurdle.

I expect there will be a push for a "phase 4" in a month or so once the real numbers come in. I'm not sure there's a choice, given that if we don't do this then the economy will be hit just as hard by the pandemic itself.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 27, 2020, 05:41:57 PM
It might have been hard to work out in time but I would rather have seen the money go to boost unemployment coverage for those that were laid off or had hours reduce.  As I mentioned, my wife and I are still working full time and we aren't concerned about paying our mortgage, bills, or getting groceries.  We don't really need the money.  My friend who got laid off  temporarily does.

That said, I'll applaud their efforts to put this together rather quickly and with such support from all involved.

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 28, 2020, 02:25:16 AM
It might have been hard to work out in time but I would rather have seen the money go to boost unemployment coverage for those that were laid off or had hours reduce.  As I mentioned, my wife and I are still working full time and we aren't concerned about paying our mortgage, bills, or getting groceries.  We don't really need the money.  My friend who got laid off  temporarily does.

That said, I'll applaud their efforts to put this together rather quickly and with such support from all involved.

I think at 100%+ salary there's not much more they could have done for unemployment. (I'm not sure how much there is for folks who simply reduced hours, though.)

The money for everybody I think is more for keeping the economy afloat than specifically to help people recover from major income loss.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 28, 2020, 10:49:38 AM
Agreed with Charlie on the reasoning.  The idea is that we all have money to continue buying things and keeping businesses going.  Yes it will help some that have lost jobs or have reduced hours but getting us all to keep spending is at least half the idea.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on March 28, 2020, 11:40:48 AM
Agreed with Charlie on the reasoning.  The idea is that we all have money to continue buying things and keeping businesses going.  Yes it will help some that have lost jobs or have reduced hours but getting us all to keep spending is at least half the idea.

it's just, we're all going to spend the money on amazon and walmart.  All the local businesses, the small chains; are closed.  So "The" econnomy will keep getting money pumped into it, but I don't see it really helping local micro-economies.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 28, 2020, 11:44:25 AM
I disagree.  I specifically have been trying to spend money locally.  As should you.  I know some businesses are closed but feeding money to the ones that are open will only bolster the others when they reopen.  If we all only shop at online retailers we're only fucking ourselves. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on March 28, 2020, 01:54:28 PM
It might have been hard to work out in time but I would rather have seen the money go to boost unemployment coverage for those that were laid off or had hours reduce.  As I mentioned, my wife and I are still working full time and we aren't concerned about paying our mortgage, bills, or getting groceries.  We don't really need the money.  My friend who got laid off  temporarily does.

That said, I'll applaud their efforts to put this together rather quickly and with such support from all involved.

I think at 100%+ salary there's not much more they could have done for unemployment. (I'm not sure how much there is for folks who simply reduced hours, though.)
I think I missed that part.  Do you know how long it'll be funded for?

Quote
The money for everybody I think is more for keeping the economy afloat than specifically to help people recover from major income loss.
But I have money to keep doing what I'm doing.  /shrug  I guess I just want to make sure that the people who are getting fucked the hardest are being taken care of (I'm sure you do as well)

I disagree.  I specifically have been trying to spend money locally.  As should you.  I know some businesses are closed but feeding money to the ones that are open will only bolster the others when they reopen.  If we all only shop at online retailers we're only fucking ourselves. 
I know personally since I'm not going out as much it is a lot harder to spend locally.  I'm certainly not going to the movies anytime soon.  We are still ordering from the same restaurants but certainly not as often (partly because my wife is more risk adverse than I am) and most of them are chains.  I'm certainly not going to the sketchy hole-in-the-wall Mexican place even though their taco tuesday is so good.  I do run to the hardware store but that's an Ace so while a local store it isn't like a mom-and-pop.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 28, 2020, 10:25:29 PM
I think I missed that part.  Do you know how long it'll be funded for?

I don't remember seeing it definitively, but if I recall correctly it's at least "months". (Side note, it looked like I was saying 100% plus salary, but I meant reimbursement of full salary plus in some cases a little bit more- which is why some Republicans almost held up the bill in the Senate.)


But I have money to keep doing what I'm doing.  /shrug  I guess I just want to make sure that the people who are getting fucked the hardest are being taken care of (I'm sure you do as well)

Nah, not really. I want the cash. It's time for a new phone.

Ha ha, just kidding. I'm sure it's more that it's too hard to target the people who really need it so it's better to just give the checks to everybody and then if you really want to get the money back from those who don't need it you use the tax code later.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on March 29, 2020, 06:24:21 PM
I think I missed that part.  Do you know how long it'll be funded for?

I don't remember seeing it definitively, but if I recall correctly it's at least "months". (Side note, it looked like I was saying 100% plus salary, but I meant reimbursement of full salary plus in some cases a little bit more- which is why some Republicans almost held up the bill in the Senate.)


I think it is 36 weeks now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on April 01, 2020, 10:30:53 AM
Illinois extended the stay-at-home order until end of April - and with that school's are off as well. Looks like we will be staying in the forest for another month. I'm enjoying it quite a bit, but I kind of feel sorry that my kids can't do all their after school stuff - they miss it quite a bit. My daughter is practicing her dance stuff, but it is harder for my son to do rock climbing and BJJ by him self at home :/ there are only so many exercises you can motivate a ten year old to do.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on April 01, 2020, 12:25:36 PM
I disagree.  I specifically have been trying to spend money locally.  As should you.  I know some businesses are closed but feeding money to the ones that are open will only bolster the others when they reopen.  If we all only shop at online retailers we're only fucking ourselves. 
The caterer that did our wedding just send an email that you can buy meals for healthcare workers.  This is (IMO) a great idea as it keeps their business going and supports our healthcare workers.  I hope other local businesses can come up with solutions like this.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on April 02, 2020, 01:35:40 AM
Schools closed through the end of the school year here. Which we expected but not everybody did so there's some sadness around town (or so I hear, I don't actually talk to anybody).

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on April 02, 2020, 08:10:55 AM
Our school closure has been extended to May, but I doubt it will open before the end of the year... at this point I'm crossing my fingers for September. My son is supposed to start junior kindergarten.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on April 02, 2020, 11:34:04 AM
we're still scheduled to resume April 20th but I highly doubt that will happen. 
New "work from home" packets will be ready for the kids tomorrow.  My kids haven't come close to finishing the first three weeks worth of stuff  :rolleyes:

A lot of this is starting to hit closer to home.  My girlfriend's coworker's dad just died from the virus.  My coworker's grandfather was just hospitalized for pneumonia but hasn't been confirmed as COVID-19 still, he's old and like 90lbs and the hospital sent him home after 2 days because they're overcrowded and he didn't currently need respiratory therapy.

Anyway, just the anxiety levels of so many people is so high and, while for some, this situation brings out the best, for so many others it makes them the worst version of themselves.  My girlfriend was on a call with a colleague in NYC who said was talkinga bout how every one is so on edge. Like, "it feels like 9/11 except then, you knew who the enemy was and everyone came together but now, everyone else is the enemy."  I thought that was a really telling statement and a good comparison of how this all feels right now
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on April 02, 2020, 01:42:07 PM
Micah, did they at least perform a test on your coworker's grandfather? Honestly, it's probably best for him to be home if he's mostly stable.

As for NYC on edge, it's really true. I was walking to Duane Reade to get some tums the other day and went by this little old lady who was moving kind of slow and not in a straight line. After I passed her, she yelled at me "mind your six feet!" I kind of wanted to tell her that she was the one that almost cut me off while I was walking PAST her, but by the time she finished her sentence, I was already 12 feet out in front of her. Soooo, I just kept walking.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on April 03, 2020, 08:30:04 PM
So we are officially going to "Remote Learning Days" through the end of April, but most likely to the end of the year. Teachers are doing another planning day on Monday. They will be using an actual schedule to have the learning be a much more structured than over the past two weeks. Even though I thought what they were doing worked, but it probably didn't work for a lot of kids and we're lucky that ours took to it so well. I think the structured approach will be better.

But even with that, only a few kids participated in the seesaw platform - out of the school's two 4th grades (about 30 kids) - less than 10 posted anything

Next week they will start live communication through hangouts as well - so that's kind of cool. But it means we will all have to be in our areas so not to disturb each other too much - potentially all four of us could be on a video call of sorts at the same time! isn't that crazy?

I wonder how the district will handle kids that don't have internet access :( I heard that comcast is doing two free months in cases like that - but it could be only a rumor.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on April 04, 2020, 11:35:10 AM
No, I heard the same.  Spectrum is offering a no-cost option for people that need it.  It seems like all the kids in my kids' classes have access.  They had a Zoom meeting the other day and I assume those will pick up.  They actually have spring break next week but both of my kids have stuff they need to finish up that's due by the time remote learning resumes the following week.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: kermi3 on April 04, 2020, 12:30:53 PM
Hey Folks - Popping in.  I’m glad Jake bugged me to do so.  How’s everyone? 

I’m gonna be an asshole, and not read all the backlog.  Is everyone safe and at home?

I’m huddled at home.  Not really going anywhere except here and my girlfriend’s house.  Neither is she.  We sent the kids home a week early for spring break, and we’re now closed on campus for the year.  We “go back” on Monday - digitally.  I spent my break wallowing, prepping, and redoing my home office to prepare.  Working from home is tough.  Way tougher I know for the girlfriend and her 6 year old - and the rest of you with kids in the house.

How is everyone?  I haven’t had the emotional fortitude to engage a lot - thus why I didn’t come by sooner, but I’ve been thinking of you all.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: KnuckleBuckett on April 05, 2020, 09:38:46 AM
Knuck update time...

Laura and I are doing okay here.  Living our typical boring life.  Went traveled to in Europe in 2018.  Replaced my car with another just like it when it hit 200K and 11 years.  She replaced hers this year with a Lexus SUV when hers hit 200K and 16 years.  Weathered a strike at work, and then afterwards hit 20 years of service.

Had THE WORST cold of my life the first three weeks of this 2020.  My coworkers think I had Covid-19.  It freaked them out that I was out that much and so messed up.  I rarely get sick and never for more than a day or so.  I don't think I had C-19, but I certainly had many of the symptoms.  Especially with the brutal cough and plugged up lungs.  It knocked me out for nearly three weeks.  My personal guess is that it was multiple bacterial infections.  A light case of bacterial pneumonia, a good old fashioned cold, and a sinus infection simultaneously.  They tested me for all sorts of stuff at the doctor and everything showed negative.  C-10 wasn't being tested for a the time so I suppose I won't know unless I get C-19 at some time in the future.  Though I would prefer to avoid that if possible in favor of a vaccination in a year or two.

Laura and I are surrounded by really great neighbors which makes this mess a lot easier to deal with.  I am working as normal through the C-19 pandemic and Laura is working from home for the foreseeable future.

Mom has been dealing with multiple myeloma in MI, so it sucks that we are 500 miles away.  Brother and relatives are helping when needed.  We visit Michigan more often.  For somebody in their 70s she is handling it pretty well.

Kermi you don't mind, jump into Discord and we will exchange contact info, so that the next time we visit MI, we can get together for a meetup with you and yours.  I am in there quite often.  You will still know folks in there.

In other news I brew beer every so often with a neighborhood coworker.  When/if we meet up in MI, I can bring you a couple.  We brew very high quality beer as good as anything you can get in most specialty stores.  We even sneak in an occasional wine and or orange blossom mead.

Obes very very is jealous because when I visited him brewing wasn't a thing yet so he received not one delicious beverage.  Don't be jealous Benny.  Just stop by the house next time you are out!!   :love:


Technobabble
I just replaced my old Anker brand earbuds with the Amazon ones and they are surprisingly nice.  Still spec and build gaming PCs.  Mine is due to be replaced this or next year.  You still grow experimental lifeforms inside yours?  :D
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on April 06, 2020, 10:40:21 AM
On our status call this morning my boss told us that his wife, who is a nurse in Boston, spent two days mentoring a new hire who, on the second day went home sick and tested positive for the virus.  So he's like, "don't think I'll be coming back to the office any time soon."

I read to day that apparently the tigers at the Bronx Zoo are the first US cases of the virus spreading to animals...and the first tigers in the world to get sick from it (as far as anyone knows)  Crazy.

On the homefront, better late then never, I'm finally doubling down on isolation as best as possible.  We've been being pretty good but there were a couple times last week I took Harper with me to the store and we were all hitting up fast food drive-thrus quite a bit.  No more taking the kids anywhere, and I'm stocked up on soda and snacks at home so I don't have to randomly be like, "girls get dressed, I need a 7-Eleven run" LOL.  My girlfriends "mom" made me a mask last week, I started wearing it today when I stopped for gas.

So ready for this to be over! I think we should revisit the meetup at Jakes cabin idea for this summer or fall.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on April 06, 2020, 10:57:27 AM
On the homefront, better late then never, I'm finally doubling down on isolation as best as possible.  We've been being pretty good but there were a couple times last week I took Harper with me to the store and we were all hitting up fast food drive-thrus quite a bit.  No more taking the kids anywhere, and I'm stocked up on soda and snacks at home so I don't have to randomly be like, "girls get dressed, I need a 7-Eleven run" LOL.  My girlfriends "mom" made me a mask last week, I started wearing it today when I stopped for gas.

THANK YOU!  I went to the grocery store last week and I was amazed about how many people had MULTIPLE kids with them.  In the age range where they wander around and definitely aren't refraining from touching stuff and then their face.  I can understand it is hard but whole fuck keep them out of the store for everyone's sake.

I was also amazed by the number of older couples at the store.  The wife and I are only sending one person (me) out just to limit exposure.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on April 06, 2020, 12:12:55 PM
I just realized that a facebook friend of mine, a girl I went to highschool with, has the virus.  She is a respiratory therapist but she also has lupus.  On top of that, her kids have always had health issues and she's been separated from them for a week.  So sad.  She's currently at home but her doctor is concerned about her heart inflammation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on April 06, 2020, 01:59:18 PM
I'm currently at the hospital. I was hoping to work from home tomorrow and Wednesday, but we're finally getting our COVID testing kits tomorrow so we'll be going live the same day (which is insane in regular day life). So maybe I'll be WFH Wed/Thurs instead. That means my office mate (who tested positive, was out for two weeks, and was cleared to WFH for the last week) will have been away from the office for 17 work days!

Husband has been WFH for the last year, so this is normal for him, but what is not normal is having the toddler at home all time wreaking havoc.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on April 10, 2020, 11:52:33 PM
Quote
We're starting to get the vibe around here that we'll be cancelling our 2,500 kid/1,000 staff camp....

Yeah, that's a lot of people... It feels like we might start opening things up before the summer but I feel like large groups like this might not be coming back for a long time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on April 14, 2020, 12:15:27 PM
So, procrastination paid off for the wife and I.  Our 2018 return was just under the $150K amount for the stimulus checks and last week we had the accountant prepare our 2019 return and it is a good amount over that threshold.    Sure, I feel a little bad since we aren't in need of the money but being lazy with the taxes paid off this time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on April 14, 2020, 01:45:01 PM
I'm concerned that it doesn't seem like much progress is being made in ramping up testing and building up hospital supplies. The whole point of all these lockdowns was to give time for those things to catch up and be put into place. Is that even going to happen?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on April 14, 2020, 02:00:04 PM
I don't expect testing to every ramp up in the US.  Many places are nearing the expected peak and are just assuming that if you have the symptoms you have the disease.  I expect that the antibody test to be the bigger focus as that gives you more of an idea of when we can open back up safely (not that certain people care about doing it safely).
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on April 14, 2020, 04:50:56 PM
I don't expect testing to every ramp up in the US.  Many places are nearing the expected peak and are just assuming that if you have the symptoms you have the disease.  I expect that the antibody test to be the bigger focus as that gives you more of an idea of when we can open back up safely (not that certain people care about doing it safely).

That would be bad. If things open up and we can't test and trace then infections will spike again and we'll have to go back into lockdown. We'd have to get lucky and have a LOT more asymptomatic infected folks running around for that to be a reasonable path forward in my opinion.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on April 14, 2020, 05:55:04 PM
Agreed.  I just don't see the tests ramping up too much beyond the current level.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on April 14, 2020, 07:04:07 PM
I don't expect testing to every ramp up in the US.  Many places are nearing the expected peak and are just assuming that if you have the symptoms you have the disease.  I expect that the antibody test to be the bigger focus as that gives you more of an idea of when we can open back up safely (not that certain people care about doing it safely).

I agree with Mike. I think this is the big push now, to offer a home test for the antibodies
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on April 15, 2020, 01:10:29 AM
jack pot! thank you Corona
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on April 15, 2020, 10:05:02 AM
Racking in that 31 cents!
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on April 16, 2020, 07:11:21 AM
Our stimulus payment didn't hit as of yesterday, so we went ahead and added info to https://www.irs.gov/coronavirus/get-my-payment

We won't be getting the full amount back, but it's more than nothing. Someone in a FB group I'm in was bitching about how everyone was going to spend this on "crap" and why didn't the government put this into something like healthcare. I get where they were prooooobably coming from, but that privilege was full-frontal and they were getting draaagged from people who were asking where they was donating their stimulus check to.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on April 16, 2020, 07:51:05 AM
I'm also worried about relaxing measures while we don't have sufficient testing available.

IMO the antibody test is really only useful in determining how much of the population was actually affected and asymptomatic to further determine transmissibility, pathogenesis, and mortality rates. It seems incredibly dangerous to put faith into these tests bringing us "back to normal." We might not end up with another wave the same way we experienced this time around in June or July but the testing response has been embarrassing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on April 16, 2020, 09:00:33 AM
Totally agree Jen.  These people that are protesting and the idiots that just want to open everything back up are just asking for trouble.  If we had responded like some of the other countries we might be in better shape but we didn't.  And we're not. 

I'm sort of surprised by some people's responses to the stimulus checks.  I know a LOT of people that their job is either on hold or they flat out lost their job.  People that say stuff like that need a reality check (pun intended).
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on April 16, 2020, 10:07:12 AM
Someone in a FB group I'm in was bitching about how everyone was going to spend this on "crap" and why didn't the government put this into something like healthcare.

I mean... that's probably the #1 goal of a stimulus check... people spend it on crap which helps keep the economy afloat.

It also helps people who are struggling financially but I doubt there are that many people for which this one check is the difference.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on April 16, 2020, 10:29:37 AM
Someone in a FB group I'm in was bitching about how everyone was going to spend this on "crap" and why didn't the government put this into something like healthcare.

I mean... that's probably the #1 goal of a stimulus check... people spend it on crap which helps keep the economy afloat.

It also helps people who are struggling financially but I doubt there are that many people for which this one check is the difference.

I don't think this check was meant to keep people afloat who have lost income... more like, as you said, its meant so people will buy crap and stimulate the economy.  I agree 100% with your second statement... this check means I can get all my regular bills caught up and not worry when spending several hundred dollars during my current house purging (eg, buying the kids mattresses or replacing/fixing hosehold items and buying cleaning supplies beyond my normal budget).   Also, I bought a new shirt.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on April 17, 2020, 10:17:42 AM
Our vendor shared this map with us yesterday. They are one of the biggest credit card processors for the hospitality industry in the country. This is the difference between 2/2/20 and first week of April.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on April 17, 2020, 10:22:02 AM
ouch.

EDIT: I will also add, since my wife's business depends largely on people buying what I will call 'less essential items', her sales have taken a massive hit.  A good part of her business is invitations and of course no one is buying those.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on April 17, 2020, 10:50:09 AM
That's rough...

On the other hand, some retailers like Amazon are likely seeing massive increases. I know MS Azure had over 1000% increase on resource requests in their data centers. Massive shift in where $$ are going.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on April 17, 2020, 12:53:15 PM
We are talking about going back home in the next week or so. Looks like things are calming down a bit, and even though we love it here in the forest, there is that itch to go back. I can't quite put my finger on it as to why though - I just know I am ready to go back. We're still discussing the timing, but if it will not happen this weekend, and if everything stays the same, it will definitely be next weekend.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on April 17, 2020, 02:46:26 PM
Can't move back, you have plants growing that need your care!
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on April 17, 2020, 04:18:41 PM
are things really going back to normal out your way? I feel like things are just getting worse and worse here.  Every few days theres a new restriction to mitigate spread and the sick/death count is continuing to rise.  No idea when the "peak" is, but even once we hit that, I can't imagine things heading back towards normal any time soon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on April 17, 2020, 04:28:25 PM
We are nearing the expected peak out here.  However the message is that the peak doesn't mean we can go back yet.  Need to stay the course to keep it down.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on April 17, 2020, 04:36:59 PM
Need to ramp up testing and fortify hospitals (supplies and personnel) before coming out of lockdown! I don't think we're close (as in no way before May).
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on April 17, 2020, 07:16:24 PM
Yeah, Newsom said at least two weeks to start evaluating.

Also, heard that China is seeing a resurgence after loosing restrictions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on April 18, 2020, 10:35:38 AM
and just like that, our plan got twisted again. The governor cancelled school for the rest of the year, and even though he wants to start opening up the economy, I'm sure it will be a long while longer before kids' after school stuff will return. I think we will reverse the roles on our houses, and go back to Chicago every couple of weeks to mow the lawn and do some other upkeep type stuff and just continue as we are here. Decision has not been made yet, but we are leaning this way now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on April 18, 2020, 05:37:04 PM
Jake, do you still have people staying with you, or is it just your immediate family?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on April 18, 2020, 07:50:41 PM
Jake, do you still have people staying with you, or is it just your immediate family?

My best friend and his family spent a week or so here; his wife lost her job right before they came and then his job told him he can work from home but needs to be a half hour away at most...so they went back. So it's just us at this time
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on April 21, 2020, 02:10:36 PM
Our lab went live with one of our antibody tests today. Feeling proud right now.

Leadership also just announced that sick time from COVID is no longer being distinguished by hospital exposure vs outside exposure. Previously if you were out sick with COVID, you had to use sick time unless there was proven exposure at the hospital. If you had proven traceable direct exposure at the hospital, you could take up to 2 weeks without dipping into your sick bank. With this change, you can take up to 3 weeks out sick for COVID without dipping into your sick time. Change is retroactive, meaning my analyst who was out sick for 2 weeks gets his sick time AND vacation time back!!

He had only had a few days sick time available since he started in December and was close to building his vacation bank up to zero before he got sick (he took a pre-planned honeymoon in December). So now instead of having a 0 sick balance and -7 Vacation, he'll be at 4 and 7! I'm so glad for him.

Meanwhile we have employees asking if they can receive government assistance if they've been asked to NOT work while still getting paid 80% of their pay+benefits. Guys, keep me back from slapping these people.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on April 23, 2020, 03:18:31 AM
Our lab went live with one of our antibody tests today. Feeling proud right now.

That's awesome! :dblthumb2:



Can you send some to those Stanford researchers please so we can get some serology studies that we can have a little more confidence in?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on April 23, 2020, 08:58:31 AM
My sister works at a hospital in Philly and recently volunteered to work in the COVID unit after doing a rotation in it (the thinking being that she lives alone and didn't want to keep bouncing between her normal unit and the COVID one).  She said they were going to do serology studies on those nurses. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: kermi3 on April 24, 2020, 10:39:10 AM
Warning - multitopic ADHD post below! :D

Ouch.  That's awful Jake.  There aren't even really words for how things are crashing out.  We don't really have much of a choice if we don't want lots of people dying but...

I spent part of my check on a new monitor - and the rest is going to savings...

I will say - I was reading about everyone's exercise in the other thread.  The best part of where I live is the fact that I'm in the middle of the woods.  My walking has gone way up.  Dogs and I are up from probably averaging around 2 miles a day in a normal April to 4 miles a day so far this month - including a really nice 7am hike this morning.  My legs are constantly sore, but at least we're able to get out of the house.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on April 24, 2020, 01:24:29 PM
Not sure if this should go in the COVID thread or the election thread  :rofl: https://t.co/0EDqJcy38p
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on April 24, 2020, 01:30:44 PM
Not sure if this should go in the COVID thread or the election thread  :rofl: https://t.co/0EDqJcy38p
Hmmm how about the "Today I got pissed because......" thread?  Or the next-to-be-created "I'm losing all hope for humanity" thread.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on April 24, 2020, 02:07:43 PM
Not sure if this should go in the COVID thread or the election thread  :rofl: https://t.co/0EDqJcy38p
Hmmm how about the "Today I got pissed because......" thread?  Or the next-to-be-created "I'm losing all hope for humanity" thread.

It seems pretty par for course in terms of words coming from his face though.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on April 24, 2020, 02:33:52 PM
Related: This is from back in March... https://local.theonion.com/man-just-buying-one-of-every-cleaning-product-in-case-t-1842493766
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: kermi3 on April 24, 2020, 04:52:15 PM
Lol...tears
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on April 26, 2020, 03:42:05 PM
we came back home on Friday and we'll see how this week goes
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on April 26, 2020, 04:56:05 PM
So while all this is going on, we've had some projects that we're trying to finish on the house.  Not sure if I mentioned it or not but we did a bunch of work in our kitchen at the end of last year.  It all looked really dated (honey oak cabinets, really old countertops that were busted up in a few places, etc.).  We had a carpenter come in and add crown molding to the cabinets and added a bunch of molding to the island to make it look more like a piece of furniture than a basic couple of cabinets slammed together.  Then we had quartz counters put in.  Then we had a painter come in and paint it all white.  We replaced the stove (went from gas to electric), replaced the fridge that was basically falling apart after 14 years, and replaced the microwave with one that was about half the height (which I didn't know existed previously and it's amazing!). 

Anyways, the last piece was backsplash.  We haven't been able to find a tile that we like but did a lot of online shopping and found one and ordered a sample and we really like it.  Oddly enough, we got it from Home Depot as a special order.

I had also placed an online order for some of the materials (mastic, sealer, etc.) and went to Lowes last night to pick it up.  It's really weird because I haven't really been anywhere but the grocery store since this all happened.  About half the people had masks, half didn't.  All the registers now have plexi-glass everywhere and a lot of the staff were wearing masks and/or gloves.  I think most of the people there to shop didn't really give a shit about any of it.  I did notice as I was leaving that they apparently hit some sort of capacity because they were stopping people from entering until someone left.  I guess that's new?  There were a lot of cars in the parking lot so I know there must have been at least 100 people inside. 

I had my wife with me but she stayed in our car.  I wore a mask the whole time but not gloves.  We went to a park afterward for a long walk which was nice because the weather was perfect.  Again, about half the people had masks, the others seemed oblivious. 

This whole thing just seems odd and only half-followed.  Granted, we went to an area where I expected less people to be following guidelines just because the general IQ over that way is probably a good 20 points lower than other surrounding cities... but still.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on April 27, 2020, 08:48:57 AM
Not surprised that half the people in Lowe's act as if nothing is happening. I have a friend who is a welder for a big construction company. He says it's just work as usual there. No social distancing, no guidelines from management, everyone works in close quarters, eats lunch together etc.. So if you're in the trades you probably don't feel the differences as much as us office workers that are stuck at home all day.

Our grocery stores also have plexi glass at the checkouts, capacity limits, and most people wearing masks. It's a little crazy to see.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on April 29, 2020, 09:52:27 PM
So, just found out that one our programmers has been working from a different state during the lock down.  And it is the one that hasn't been doing well professionally and we are having to devote a significant amount of time to try and bring up.

I'm not entirely sure what to think about it honestly.  Like, if we are all working remotely does it really matter where?  But he never communicated that to me nor our manager.  And, employment laws across states need special attention.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on April 30, 2020, 08:11:01 AM
Apparently one of my husband's coworkers has been working from Florida for the last two months. They decided they were going to take a vacation before everything happened and then decided to just stay there when things started locking down. I figure this particular's person's primary residence is not Florida so they're still getting paid their normal way. The company also has employees working from everywhere though so I guess they have employment law figured out?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on April 30, 2020, 08:42:39 AM
Why would someone voluntarily stay in the clusterfuck that is Florida during this mess?  Like, do they want to catch it?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on April 30, 2020, 11:18:52 AM
yeah, when it comes to employment law, I have no ideas if its a big deal or not.

But I will say, I spend a lot of my working time at my girlfriend's house, which is over state lines and, at my last job, there were a couple of times when I "worked from home" at my parents house in PA and never mentioned to anyone that I was 6 hours from the office.  Seem's like it shouldn't be a big deal  :dunno:
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on April 30, 2020, 12:11:40 PM
I don't see how it is a big deal either, especially due to the once in a life time circumstance.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on April 30, 2020, 07:37:41 PM
My boss moved across the country after the new company that bought us out closed our office. He did eventually let them know and they fired him, but I think he preferred that anyway (he was ready for retirement).

But I don't see any issue with it at all if that's not their permanent address. If it is, then HR needs to know, but otherwise who cares? I've had co-workers work from other countries without it affecting their performance.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on April 30, 2020, 10:54:32 PM
> If it is, then HR needs to know, but otherwise who cares?

Employment law might.  And we aren't set up to handle out of state employees.

Also, there is still a requirement in our job duties to be able to do physical server and infrastructure maintenance.  Can't really do that if you are 10 hours away.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on May 01, 2020, 11:36:56 AM
So, fortunately, we don't have to worry about employment law since he didn't change his residence.  It becomes more of a departmental policy issue.  Sounds like there are other employees who are working from out of state in order to care for family, but they let the org know about it.  Our manager is gonna handle it from a communications perspective.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on May 01, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
You still have physical servers???
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on May 01, 2020, 02:16:47 PM
Yeah.  Our production servers are at a collocation and we have an even bigger network at the office for test servers, active directory, and file stores.

We looked at going to AWS ~4 years ago but it fell through because of (blanking on term) the court jurisdiction.  Amazon wanted to keep Washington but our district wanted it to be in California and since we were dependent on the district to approve it we couldn't move forward.  We'll probably look at it again in a few years when we start prepping for the next round of hardware refresh.  The good news is that we are currently using AWS to host our new help videos so we've broken the seal and got a toe into it.

The biggest issue is that if we go cloud we now have student data on those servers and we have to make sure the contracts include protection of that data.

And even once that is done we will still have to have on premise servers for AD because that's a thing apparently.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on May 01, 2020, 02:47:46 PM
You still have physical servers???

...
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on May 01, 2020, 04:11:24 PM
I might recommend Azure.  We're moving all of our stuff (slowly) to Azure.  Better controls, better PaaS overall.  OH, and we recently started using CloudHealth which will help you contain costs.  Love that tool!
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on May 14, 2020, 02:34:31 PM
just got off a call with 2 women from work - sales and marketing -- anyway, they were like, "I'm starting to think this whole thing is a hoax." And then the other one said, "I've heard a lot of people saying this is just because wants to put a chip in everyone." The first one replied, "I've heard that too, I tell you, I'll refuse one!"

you can't fix that kind of stupid.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on May 14, 2020, 03:33:23 PM
They probably watched that plandemic video too.

Honestly, how can you see what is happening and still think it's a hoax?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on May 22, 2020, 12:01:52 PM
Some interesting results from Indiana's recent study on its state's infection rate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XWbBTwAsUM
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on June 01, 2020, 02:36:07 PM
An unexpected side effect of this is that a lot of churches have gone online allowing people out if the area to join in.

A couple of our church members attended a service at one of the Minneapolis congregations this weekend.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on June 25, 2020, 10:37:55 AM
Things have already been looking ominous for the last week or so but we are not in a good place in the U.S. with this right now. :(
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on July 09, 2020, 10:24:19 PM
how are things by in your neck of the woods?

Some of the activities are back on for our kids, and have been for about a month now. My son is back at BJJ - but it is modified, no grappling or wrestling until at least mid august. Masks optional. he goes 3 times a week now since rock climbing did not restart yet. The BJJ place will have 2, week-long camp sessions starting next week and we signed him up for both to get them out of the house.

My daughter's dance class is also back on - masks optional. Horseback riding is on as well, but due to her arm we are doing another week off from that.

public swimming pools are closed - which sucks. Good thing we have some white privileged friends with swimming pools :D
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on July 09, 2020, 11:20:00 PM
Most things are still closed here or still doing remote or severely modified sessions.  A lot of the outdoor sports are going again though.  Our county just went to level 3 of 4 today, which means masks are required.  The next county over which covers downtown Cleveland is noted as 'almost level 4'.  So things are rising.  I suspect things will get tightened up again slightly but not full on lockdown like before.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on July 09, 2020, 11:31:55 PM
In my little neck of the woods it is mostly the same as it has been.  However, we are surrounded by counties that have, let's say, less than ideal responses to the outbreak.  As such, we are heading back to more restrictions in a little while.  If only people who fucking wear their fucking masks over their fucking nose and mouths we'd be a lot better off.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on July 10, 2020, 08:55:16 AM
Retail has reopened here. Bylaw was just passed requiring masks in all indoor public places and public transit. The only camps that are running are gymnastics and horseback riding.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on July 15, 2020, 10:03:15 PM
I had been hoping since there hadn't been much evidence of infection spreading in schools that maybe it might be safe to have partial in-person learning. But the last couple days I've seen several (anecdotal) reports that make that less and less likely.

Our schools open in 3 weeks and they are finalizing plans for the year tomorrow. Meanwhile apparently San Francisco and Sacramento have decided to go full distance learning. Our town hasn't been hit hard and they were thinking of going to a hybrid model but I'm getting more and more pessimistic that they'll be able to pull it off.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on July 16, 2020, 12:29:42 AM
So at the end of the week, I'm taking my kids on a vacation.  My parents rented a 2-bedroom condo in Ocean Beach Maryland and the 5 of us (my parents, me and the girls) are going to stay there 5 nights, after first traveling to my parents house in Pennsylvania for one night before caravaning to the beach.  I agreed to the trip a few weeks back without hesitation because, as stressful as traveling with two crazy kids is, I'm sure I'll enjoy it and I haven't seen my dad since Christmas, and they haven't seen their grandkids in just as long.

But now I'm starting to worry.  I feel like, over the past month, I've been being fairly lax about hand washing diligence and maintaining proper distancing when out. I mean, anytime I have the girls, they don't leave the house (or the car if we run out to get snacks and food).  We always wear our masks but, the cases in Connecticut have greatly declined and are not spiking like they are elsewhere in the country.  In fact, our state has a mandatory 2-week quarantine if you so much as visit one of the nearly 2-dozen states listed and deemed as "hot spots."  So I've kinda let my guard down.

But now we're going to a vacation spot, staying in a condo complex, inevitably being out and about.  Maryland isn't quite a "hot spot" right now (at least, not as determined by Connecticut's standards)... but I'm wary that either the girls or I will greatly increase our chances of carrying the virus back home and, vicariously, passing it along to other loved ones.  Not to mention, staying in PA at my parents the first night - they've been mostly following "the rules" of their state and working from home the past serveral months (as far as I know) but... how can I trust it will be ok?  :dunno:

Maybe I'm just overthinking it.  Its too late to cancel now...and I DO want to go... just, getting some unanticipated anxiety about it all now.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on July 16, 2020, 01:04:20 AM
Our governer just had a 30 min press conference tonight to basically tell shitheads to wear masks and that people need to social distance.  Cases are on the rise here and people need to stop being stupid.

Our kids are going to different schools this fall.  One has an 'all in or all out' option (meaning 5 days a week at school or 5 days a week distance learning).  That's for my daughter and I think we're going to have her distance learning at least for the first half of the year (that's when they allow you to switch).  My son's school is doing 2 days a week there and the rest at home OR all distance learning.  I honestly wish they both had a hybrid option.  I think they need it socially.  But we might just have them go virtual until shit calms the hell down.  Haven't fully decided yet.  I think we have until the 23rd.

As for your situation, Micah, I get it.  But I wouldn't go.  Fuck no.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on July 16, 2020, 02:20:00 AM
My thoughts on your situation, Micah...

If anybody in the group of 5 has it, then you're very likely going to all have it after this vacation. So the main question is how likely is it that you have it or your parents have it?

It's obviously a little harder to know since your "home unit" is larger than just you and the kids. It kind of spiders out into the lives of people who you don't know much about. Low case counts in Connecticut probably help you here, though. If you're only seeing a handful of cases in your area then you can feel a little more comfortable that the three of you are clean. I'm not sure how you assess your parents.

If and when you decide that you think the risk that any of the 5 of you have it is low enough to allow close contact with your parents, then the next concern is contracting it while on vacation. Does the condo share airflow with other units? I'm not sure how much risk that is but it would be on my mind. Other than that, I think it's just about good habits while you're there the same as it is at home. Don't hang out inside with anybody but the five of you (except for very short time periods to pick up takeout or buy groceries or whatever). Wear a mask at all times when near people, especially indoors.

Going to beach of all things is likely pretty safe. Unless it's severely overcrowded you're not going to get up in people's airspace much and it's usually pretty easy to keep your distance. So at least you have some fun stuff to do that isn't too scary.


Obviously I'm not an expert but bottom line is I'd assess how likely it is that anybody in this new 5-person unit is infected and how much risk you're willing to take in order to get some time with the grandparents. The vacation itself is probably relatively safe.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on July 16, 2020, 09:03:25 AM
I've actually heard that the 'not being in people's air space' at the beach isn't exactly safe.  You can still get it if the wind is blowing in your direction and someone 20 feet away sneezes into the wind.  Unlikely, I know.  But 'safe' isn't a word I would use.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on July 16, 2020, 09:29:01 AM
In risk management there is no safe only "acceptable level of risk"
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on July 16, 2020, 09:40:53 AM
Our school district has not finalized plans yet. They have three working options: 100% elearning, hybrid model, or 100% in person. I would be ok with either option A or C, but probably not B. A neighboring district is implementing B, where kids will be going to school for 3 hours per day only. What a joke. Many parents will not be able to go to work still with that kind of arrangement. Another neighboring district is gearing up for 100% in person.

But with cases going back up, I am anticipating a 100% eLearning option at our schools.

edit: My son was invited into the DTP program - which is like an advanced program for reading and math - for this year. I wonder how that will be handled. He is one of 5 kids at his grade level in this program.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on July 16, 2020, 10:11:55 AM
Our school district has not finalized plans yet. They have three working options: 100% elearning, hybrid model, or 100% in person. I would be ok with either option A or C, but probably not B. A neighboring district is implementing B, where kids will be going to school for 3 hours per day only. What a joke. Many parents will not be able to go to work still with that kind of arrangement. Another neighboring district is gearing up for 100% in person.

But with cases going back up, I am anticipating a 100% eLearning option at our schools.

edit: My son was invited into the DTP program - which is like an advanced program for reading and math - for this year. I wonder how that will be handled. He is one of 5 kids at his grade level in this program.

Our province has mandated option B for at least September, followed by each school board making their own decision after. But for option B, attendance is optional, so some kids can choose to be fully remote.

I don't know how teachers can possibly prepare for that. I'm with you, I'll take A or C. B is going to be really hard for teachers and working parents.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on July 16, 2020, 02:49:14 PM
But 'safe' isn't a word I would use.

Relatively is doing a lot of work in my sentence...
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on July 16, 2020, 02:58:30 PM
Our district is focused on option B. The middle school is actually really just online-only but they will have a setup for kids to come into school to get support from teachers who monitor as they do their online work.

But the high school here (yes I have a kid in high school :v:) is haggling over how to do a hybrid model. They're trying to balance parents who demand social and emotional interaction time for their children, teachers who only have so many hours in a day, safety for all involved, and the needs of the families who have fewer resources to provide home supervision, internet access, etc. Oh, and trying to get something taught. They're also trying to balance that.

I don't have any good answers. I'm certainly lucky in that my kids won't be significantly affected either way, but that's not true for so many others and no matter what decision is made there will be significant sacrifices.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on July 16, 2020, 08:01:33 PM
Our district just shared this https://youtu.be/26VOfQAao3k
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on July 16, 2020, 08:53:48 PM
so we will have 2 options, either all in person or all remote - see 9:25 of that video. You have to commit to whatever option you chose for the entire year.

There is some challenges with both options, but with the first, there are some unknowns yet 22:15

Overall, I am happy with how the district is treating this. We will most likely opt for the in school option.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on July 16, 2020, 10:23:55 PM
Our schools are doing it by the half year.  You get an option to change mid-year so you can start remote and then switch if things improve.  Or start hybrid (2 days a week) and then go full time or whatever.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on July 17, 2020, 08:02:31 AM
I hate that our schools haven't announced a plan yet.  Our governor said at the beginning of this week that they will announce "the plan" in a month. a month from now is like 2 weeks before school starts. How can I plan anything?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on July 21, 2020, 06:49:39 PM
Our district is focused on option B. The middle school is actually really just online-only but they will have a setup for kids to come into school to get support from teachers who monitor as they do their online work.

Our district is going online only for the first quarter at least.

Saw something where Florida's governor is being sued for opening schools and California's governor is being sued for closing them. No good answers...
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on July 28, 2020, 12:14:27 PM
and just like that, the in person option is off the table in our school district for at least the first 4 weeks. Even though majority of the parents preferred to send kids to school full time, majority of the teachers preferred remote...and here we are. Gotta love last minute changes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on July 28, 2020, 02:33:53 PM
So... just curious Jake, are you still working at home?  I'm still fully remote until sometime in 2021.  I think it would be unfair to send my kids back to school when it's not safe for me, as an adult, to go back to work.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on July 28, 2020, 03:08:15 PM
So... just curious Jake, are you still working at home?  I'm still fully remote until sometime in 2021.  I think it would be unfair to send my kids back to school when it's not safe for me, as an adult, to go back to work.

I've been working from home for the past 3 years or so :p but to your question, I have been regularly visiting customers for the past month and a half. My wife is also working from home, but she has the option to start going back to the office. We wanted to wait for that until the kids are in school - she is anxious to go back also.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on August 04, 2020, 09:29:33 AM
Our schools are going back full-time in September. Masks mandatory for grade 4 and up, optional for 3 and under. Full class sizes too... not sure how I feel about that. Relieved that I'll be able to work normalish hours but a little worried about the potential for an outbreak in the school.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on August 09, 2020, 11:10:00 AM
We are remaining 100% virtual.  Additionally, the budget that passed caps funding to the 2019/20 school year level.  Which really sucks as we already enrolled and hired teachers for an increased student count.  And they have announced there will be deferments in the payments from the state.  I would recommend that all you parents really look at your school's budgets and funding.  Not only do we have a pandemic but there is a recession as well and neither of those are good for schools.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on August 10, 2020, 10:49:58 AM
our back to school timeline has been extended to at least October 31st.

in other news: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-debt/u-s-household-debt-falls-amid-covid-19-spending-cutbacks-idUSKCN252289
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on August 10, 2020, 07:39:46 PM
On the positive side of things, the 4-hour all-staff yearly kickoff is now a 1-hour online meeting and all the big stuff was done as pre-recorded videos which they sent out Friday.  Which means I got to skip over a lot of the bullshit (IMO) and speed up the slow talkers.

Will miss the free carbs though.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on August 11, 2020, 08:48:47 AM
>Will miss the free carbs though.

i really miss my work lunches :(
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on August 11, 2020, 11:40:36 AM
I ended up getting tested yesterday because I caught some sort of upper respiratory thing over the weekend. Based on how I'm feeling right now, I think it was something else, but hoping to get results by Thursday.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on August 11, 2020, 01:12:58 PM
Yikes.  Fingers crossed, Jen.  :(
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on August 13, 2020, 11:57:36 AM
jen, did you get the results?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on August 13, 2020, 01:57:08 PM
Nope. It's an estimated 3-5 day turnaround so maybe tomorrow or Saturday?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on August 13, 2020, 01:58:33 PM
How are you feeling?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on August 13, 2020, 04:08:37 PM
Like I have a sinus infection LOL. Crappy but probably not as crappy as I would be if it was COVID. They actually just called. It's negative.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on August 13, 2020, 11:18:06 PM
Yay!
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: KnuckleBuckett on August 14, 2020, 06:14:35 AM
Yay!

 :rofl:
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on August 14, 2020, 02:15:07 PM
Keep an eye on it though. We had a guy at work that seemed like he might have had it but tested negative. The doctor didn't seem to think much of it and mentioned that they've seen about a 30% false negative rate. So it might be wise to get tested again later if you don't feel better in a bit. They think he might have actually had it before though and what he was dealing with may have been lingering side effects.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on September 07, 2020, 09:08:02 PM
Just thought I'd update... as posted in a safe-contact thread earlier this week...both my parents have confirmed cases of covid.  From my dads texts, its mostly flu-like symptoms and extreme tiredness and loss of taste and smell but no serious complications (as of yet.)  Fingers crossed for them...and my step-moms parents who are both wicked old.. her dad already looked like Mr Burns so I can't even imagine how he's doing.

Meanwhile, tomorrow is the first day of school.  My kids were issued (really nice) iPads and the first 2 days for them in this "hybrid" model are remote days.  So they'll be in and out of video chats with their class and doing assignments from about 9 to 2 every day with a few small breaks.  Thursdays and Fridays will be in school.  We'll see how it all goes.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on October 15, 2020, 01:00:56 AM
So... first, checking back into this thread I hope your parents are healthy and everybody else made it through ok, Micah. (Feel free to safe contact any updates if you prefer to discuss there.)


I just came here to say how annoyed I've been lately seeing how covid prevention strategies have been presented and implemented. It just seems like everywhere I turn there's some city rule or some media story or something that really seems to be missing the point.

I guess I can give some examples...

- Went to Lake Tahoe on vacation and they had picnic tables taped off in an outdoor eating area. Another day-use park was closed. They even had the area where people watch the salmon run closed (although this was supposedly half for covid and half for bears). Why? We should be encouraging people to leisure outside.

- Watched some nightly news shows while at my in-laws house and they were making a big deal about some behaviors that are probably low risk. People gathered at a Trump rally at the white house, many not wearing masks! Oh the horror! :rolleyes: The same news program talked in dire tones about a vaccine trial that was paused because a participant got sick. But that's not bad news at all, that's just normal typical procedure! Why freak people out? (There's a reason I stay away from TV news.) And through the whole program there was no talk about things that people should be worrying about the most - like indoor gatherings - or the less commonly known dangers like being indoors with poor ventilation for long periods of time even if you're socially distanced.

- So much sanitation everywhere. Like, did nobody get the memo that this coronavirus isn't transmitted very often through surfaces? Do we really need to bleach that often? Like, I'm fine with a quick spray of grocery carts but do we really need to sanitize every surface in a school every single night?

- That dumbass plexiglass divider at the VP debate. Seriously? Like droplets in the air can't move around a little divider?

I could go on and on... it's just that so much of this information has been known for months, and nobody seems to be getting it. Why did it take until a week or so ago for the CDC to update their recommendations to include aerosol transmission? Has the WHO done it at all? The CDC's recent updates have been "known" by scientists for months and months!

And what about testing? My wife had diarrhea one day and then a sore throat and headache the next day. Those symptoms in theory could have been from mild COVID-19. We figured she didn't have it because she hadn't done much high risk behavior (check out the https://www.microcovid.org/) but we wanted to test to be sure because we had plans to see family for her birthday. She couldn't get a test! The local hospital (which does not have a ton of cases) said it's probably a viral infection and quarantine for 3 days or something. WTF? I know she probably didn't have it but we should have enough tests to let people with mild or no symptoms check. It's been 7 months since this blew up here.. why can't we just get a test?

I'm still going on and on, I know. But where are the air filters? Why aren't people mass producing them and sending them to schools and essential businesses? I know some places have them (my dentist said he did) so if they're common, why aren't we working to make sure restaurants or other high-risk businesses have access so maybe we could reduce restrictions further?

Where are the N95 valve-less masks? Our regular masks mostly prevent us from giving COVID-19 to other people, but people who work all day indoors could wear an N95 (some places have KN95s for $1 each) and get additional protection for themselves. How many months does it take to ramp up production? Will we get a vaccine before we get better masks widely available?

And we're starting on our third wave nationally... cases and hospitalizations are rising again. WHY?!? Gah it really does make me mad. I know there aren't perfect solutions but we should be doing way better than this.  :mad:
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on October 15, 2020, 09:11:52 AM
Yup, totally agree with all of that. 

Another example: our local school is NOT being transparent.  One of the cheerleaders posted on social media in the town and blew up a huge thing saying half the cheer squad had it and the school then sent out calls and emails saying there was 1 confirmed case and 8 others 'under investigation'.  They then went on to say that anyone in the high school (where the confirmed case was) that didn't show up to the single in-school day (Wednesday) would be marked absent DESPITE a potential outbreak.  WTF?  They're not telling anyone about the kids that take the rapid test because that's not 'official' and they wait until the local health board gives them a full test.  WHAT?  It's like they're trying to give it to other people.  I'm so mad at the way they are handling it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on October 15, 2020, 10:03:02 AM
Quote
- Went to Lake Tahoe on vacation and they had picnic tables taped off in an outdoor eating area. Another day-use park was closed. They even had the area where people watch the salmon run closed (although this was supposedly half for covid and half for bears). Why? We should be encouraging people to leisure outside.
Yes and no.  Yes you want them to leisure outdoors but you don't want a large group of unrelated people at the same spot.  So, I can see those places that attract lots of people being closed.

Quote
- So much sanitation everywhere. Like, did nobody get the memo that this coronavirus isn't transmitted very often through surfaces? Do we really need to bleach that often? Like, I'm fine with a quick spray of grocery carts but do we really need to sanitize every surface in a school every single night?

- That dumbass plexiglass divider at the VP debate. Seriously? Like droplets in the air can't move around a little divider?
Swiss cheese defense.  No one defense is perfect but you can build up a good defense through layers of actions.  A divider isn't going to stop the small droplets that float around but could stop the larger droplets.  Plus, would you really want to be "near" someone that has lots of contact with a super spreader?

What you really seem to be getting at is that people aren't keeping up with the information.  That is something that affects almost every aspect of life.  There are studies showing that doctors still do particular activities that aren't helpful (and sometimes harmful) because that is how they've always done it.  In this case, I think there is a psychological need to appear to be taking COVID seriously and a need to have some measure of control.  So we do things that have minimal impact because that is at least something we can do.

Without getting too political some of those examples show the weakness in federal response and leadership.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on October 15, 2020, 10:13:07 AM
Quote
Why? We should be encouraging people to leisure outside.

this type of behavior happens all around where we are. Last weekend I wanted to take the family to Morton Arboretum https://www.mortonarb.org/ to spend a couple hours walking and enjoying the fall colors. The place is about 35 minutes away from our house. As we pulled up there was a big "sold out today" sign. WTF. We ignored it and went to the gate anyway - where we were greeted by a guy with a hand held scanner - he asked for a pre paid time pass - again, WTF? so turns out they can only admit a certain number of people and passes are only sold online for a pre determined time slot and they were all sold out for that day. We drove through the half empty parking lot to leave - and instead went for a walk at an awesome forest preserve that literally borders the Arboretum

I'll give two more examples because they are both comical and show how stupid our governments can be: we have been visiting many public out door places this summer since we no longer have our cabin. from county and state parks, to marinas on lake Michigan - almost all places have closed public restrooms due to COVID (per the signs) and in stead they have brought in one or two porta pottys - are you fucking kidding me. At least the bathrooms have running water and soap. Who the fuck is this protecting??

The other example is in regards to this week - it is the start of the trout fishing season. Usually, DNR stocks hundreds of ponds and creeks in Illinois twice a year so that anglers can enjoy some trout fishing. Well, this year, the amount of water systems that were stocked was cut by 2/3rd - again because of Covid "prevention". The first two days of the season brings large crowds to these water systems, and the DNR wants to prevent that....so you know what will happen? most of those people will still go fishing and the places that are open will be even more crowded. Who the fuck elects these idiots?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on October 15, 2020, 10:15:52 AM
Yup, totally agree with all of that. 

Another example: our local school is NOT being transparent.  One of the cheerleaders posted on social media in the town and blew up a huge thing saying half the cheer squad had it and the school then sent out calls and emails saying there was 1 confirmed case and 8 others 'under investigation'.  They then went on to say that anyone in the high school (where the confirmed case was) that didn't show up to the single in-school day (Wednesday) would be marked absent DESPITE a potential outbreak.  WTF?  They're not telling anyone about the kids that take the rapid test because that's not 'official' and they wait until the local health board gives them a full test.  WHAT?  It's like they're trying to give it to other people.  I'm so mad at the way they are handling it.

Where I was so happy during the summer with our school district, since then it just got progressively worse - now I'm down right mad. They are now trying to get kids back to school - 2 days a week, 4 hours a day. How many families can manage that?! Most districts around us have opened up successfully - most are going the whole week, and our district cannot get it together. Makes me want to move.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on October 15, 2020, 10:58:35 AM
Quote
- Went to Lake Tahoe on vacation and they had picnic tables taped off in an outdoor eating area. Another day-use park was closed. They even had the area where people watch the salmon run closed (although this was supposedly half for covid and half for bears). Why? We should be encouraging people to leisure outside.
Yes and no.  Yes you want them to leisure outdoors but you don't want a large group of unrelated people at the same spot.  So, I can see those places that attract lots of people being closed.

Sure... but there are ways to prevent massive crowds without completely closing the places. And it is very rare for an outdoor space to get so crowded that you're spending more than a few seconds near somebody outside your group. If you require masks then I don't see it being a problem and I feel like the benefits would outweigh the small risk.

But as you said, I don't think these choices are necessarily being made on risk benefit assessments, but rather the inertia of the initial changes followed by which closures get the biggest outcry and which are easiest to leave closed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on November 08, 2020, 06:44:34 PM
My wife started having cold/flu like symptoms on Friday. Started with chills, progressed to sore throat, muscle pain and headache on Saturday, chest pressure last night and finally heavy cough today. For obvious reasons we thought she has covid-19 and decided to get a test. To our surprise, we couldn't find an open to time slot for drive through testing until Wednesday! And we looked in the greater chicagoland area...she called a covid hospital, and after a phone screen, the screener concluded she most likely has covid and can come in today for a doctor's visit. We wanted to avoid that at all costs - the in person visit at a covid hospital that is.

She called her friend that works at a doctor's office. An hour later she had a rapid test kit in her hand. Administered it and it came out negative.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on November 08, 2020, 07:26:16 PM
My wife started having cold/flu like symptoms on Friday. Started with chills, progressed to sore throat, muscle pain and headache on Saturday, chest pressure last night and finally heavy cough today. For obvious reasons we thought she has covid-19 and decided to get a test. To our surprise, we couldn't find an open to time slot for drive through testing until Wednesday! And we looked in the greater chicagoland area...she called a covid hospital, and after a phone screen, the screener concluded she most likely has covid and can come in today for a doctor's visit. We wanted to avoid that at all costs - the in person visit at a covid hospital that is.

She called her friend that works at a doctor's office. An hour later she had a rapid test kit in her hand. Administered it and it came out negative.

We had a similar experience. My wife had cold symptoms including a cough and was able to get a test in a couple days but it took 6 days to get the results (hers was negative). It would be easier to handle it if testing gave quick and accurate results for anybody with symptoms.


I don't know too much about the rapid tests but are they considered reliable? Like do they tell you to still get the regular test when you can get the appointment just to be sure?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on November 08, 2020, 07:28:36 PM
Her friend said if the rapid test is given same day as symptoms occur, it is a bit less accurate - three days into it she said it is very accurate
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on November 08, 2020, 11:35:41 PM
The chest pressure and cough would be the thing I'd worry most about. Hopefully she feels better in a few days. Might want to get yourself tested out of precaution.

My step-mom just tested positive this week as did one of my aunts. So far, my dad and uncle are clear and isolating their spouses to their basements. My wife wasn't feeling well last week but seems to be better this weekend so we didn't end up finding a testing site.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on November 10, 2020, 09:20:12 AM
My son's daycare closed early yesterday and is closed temporarily due to a case in a student and teacher. I'm still allowed to come into work with a mask on while asymptomatic. I'm guessing if they closed yesterday, people got tested sometime late last week which means if Casey was exposed, it was probably early last week. Coincidentally, he came home with a super runny nose on Friday. He needs testing to return regardless so looks like he gets his first nasal swab if I can find a place that actually has slots available for testing :(
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on November 10, 2020, 11:06:32 AM
Ugh that sucks.  I know we had a daycare around here shut down because one of the kids tested positive.  Our city school is up to like 25 cases but the county keeps saying it's 'safe to continue classes'.  Like WTF?  What's the limit?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on November 10, 2020, 09:59:11 PM
Lots of interesting information about Pfizer's vaccine that seems to be doing well in trials

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CHa_1e9J5mX  a little long, but captivating.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on November 11, 2020, 12:11:31 PM
I saw a video with Fauci and, for him, he was super excited about it.  The effectiveness of it, if it proves true, is phenomenal (over 90%!!).  The benchmark was like 50%.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on November 14, 2020, 11:25:37 PM
So we all got sick. My wife is going through it the worse.  She is at tail end now, but had a pretty nasty cough. We both lost taste and smell. Other than that I am taking it pretty well, just some fatigue and muscle pain. My daughter also had some fatigue, sore throat and cough. My son just felt weird for a day - he took it the best. I tried to get tested, but everything is filled up. Went to a drive up state ran facility today, the wait was 3 to 5 hours. Nope.

So who knows...even though my wife tested negative, we think we probably have covid - i thought it was a common cold until we both lost taste and smell today. So we've been isolating for the entire week and will until Friday. I got my first symptom Wednesday morning.

No high fever though - i think my daughter and I got to 99 a few times, but nothing higher.

My daughter vomited a few times on Tuesday.

No chest pains. No trouble breathing.

But no fun to have most of the household sick.

I don't think we were ever all sick at the same time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on November 15, 2020, 12:43:03 AM
Sorry, Jake. That really sucks. Hope you all recover quickly. Not great that everybody’s sick but at least you’re all going through it together.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on November 15, 2020, 12:47:30 AM
That sucks!  Sorry to hear you guys got it.  I hope you don't get any of the lasting effects :(
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on November 15, 2020, 12:50:41 AM
Thanks guys. We're making the most out of it and spending a lot of time together...sometimes it's fun, other times not do much :p
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on November 15, 2020, 09:59:37 PM
Husband and I got our results on Saturday (both neg) but for some reason I haven't gotten notification for my son. Ughh. Hope to get a call tomorrow but daycare probably will be closed for another week and then it's Thanksgiving week, so I'm not sure they'll open until after then.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on November 15, 2020, 10:02:25 PM
Jake, when did your wife get tested relative to her symptoms? Glad you guys are on the tail end and hope none of the long term effects stick around.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on November 15, 2020, 11:28:59 PM
I told my parents that I'm bringing the girls for thanksgiving.  It'll just be the 3 of use gong to their house... but it means traveling from CT to PA.  Brenda was invited but she has decided she doesn't want to go, mostly because of covid (although, obviously she's still nervous about meeting my parents.) Honestly, I'm a little nervous about going myself, but if its just my parents and me and the girls, that'll be ok, right?  I hate to think we're making a bad call, but at the same time, how many holidays do we have left? My dad is 65 now... if we don't see them now, than what happen if we wait another year? ugh, stupid covid.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on November 15, 2020, 11:45:10 PM
Husband and I got our results on Saturday (both neg) but for some reason I haven't gotten notification for my son. Ughh. Hope to get a call tomorrow but daycare probably will be closed for another week and then it's Thanksgiving week, so I'm not sure they'll open until after then.

Glad yours came back negative, Jen. How long did you wait for the results?

Jake, when did your wife get tested relative to her symptoms? Glad you guys are on the tail end and hope none of the long term effects stick around.

Her first symptom was Friday evening - she got a real bad case of the chills. She took the rapid test on Sunday afternoon.

Today I woke up and the loss of sense of smell is worse than yesterday. I mean, I sprayed some perfume and could not smell it at all. As the day progressed, it got a little better - I was painting the basement and only around 6 pm started smelling the paint. Sense of taste is also weak, but I can feel some things. All other symptoms are gone. My wife and daughter still have a cough. My wife also can't taste/smell. But all other symptoms are gone.

I think at this point we are giving up on a regular test and will try an antibody test in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on November 16, 2020, 01:20:35 AM
Micah, didn’t your parents already get it? If so, then it might be fine to go.

We are not doing Thanksgiving with my side of the family this year. We were going to quarantine for two weeks and then go but with this big surge my Mom nixed the idea. We’ll probably go to my in-laws but we’ve been visiting them the whole time so they’re already pretty much in our bubble. We’ll see if it happens though because everybody’s trying to be as smart and selfless as possible now that it’s clear how bad this latest wave could be. So even things that were “very safe” before we’re rethinking.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on November 16, 2020, 08:05:12 AM
Micah, didn’t your parents already get it? If so, then it might be fine to go.

A valid point.  We'll just have to make a point of like, not stopping at rest areas or doing anything else in public while were there.  Its going to be a short trip anyway because I'm bring the girls back by Friday night so they can spend the weekend with their mom.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on November 16, 2020, 08:57:56 AM
The wife and I nixed the family plans for Thanksgiving.  On my side it'd be myself or my brother who'd host and neither are comfortable hosting a bunch of Trump supporting COVID deniers.  Which meant trying to do some weird distribution of food to the family members scattered throughout.  On her side her grandparents are hosting Thanksgiving but most of the people going are again Trump supporting COVID deniers.  So yeah.  I'm gonna get some stuff for us and cook up a nice dinner at home.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on November 16, 2020, 08:59:52 AM
Also had one of my programmers come down with COVID and another one got exposed by a roommate but tested negative.  And they were both on the same project is a "must do" by early December.  Fun times!
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on November 16, 2020, 09:13:03 AM
Glad yours came back negative, Jen. How long did you wait for the results?
I did my spit test on Wednesday and got my results on Saturday (we're testing the turnaround time for our hospital--a perk of working in a lab). Hubs and kid got swabbed Fri and results Sat (seems that one was sent to a local hospital lab).
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on November 16, 2020, 10:10:16 AM
I thought we might be going to my in-laws but the governer just asked everyone to basically skip Thanksgiving.  We're loading up on food and trying to figure out how to make it fun for the kids. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 03, 2020, 10:04:33 AM
the antibody test was a much better experience then trying to get the covid test. I went through labcorp (you've probably used them in the past for drug tests and such) - scheduling the appointment online was quick and easy. Only had to wait 2 days for an open slot. Went in yesterday at 2:15 - and was out at 2:22. Seriously. Results came in this morning at 7:30am. World class!

I did test positive for the covid antibodies. We will now do the same test for my wife and kids.

BTW, my sense of smell and taste is at about 50% still.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on December 03, 2020, 01:44:22 PM
the antibody test was a much better experience then trying to get the covid test. I went through labcorp (you've probably used them in the past for drug tests and such) - scheduling the appointment online was quick and easy. Only had to wait 2 days for an open slot. Went in yesterday at 2:15 - and was out at 2:22. Seriously. Results came in this morning at 7:30am. World class!

I did test positive for the covid antibodies. We will now do the same test for my wife and kids.

BTW, my sense of smell and taste is at about 50% still.

OMG, so you died? LOL

We survived thanksgiving, driving to PA.  Its so weird to be hyper vigilant because you're on a trip. Like, normally we've become so complacent and haven't been washing our hands and sanitizing as much as we did last spring...but on this trip I brought Clorox wipes for rest area toilet seats and we sanitized our hands before getting back in the car every time we stopped. Other than a few potty breaks, we stayed out of public and only interacted with my parents.  A week later we're no worse for wear.

My kid's school went "full remote" for a couple weeks but just confirmed we're going back to the hybrid 2-days in-person plan starting next week.  Which makes sense as the last couple weeks cover the incubation period for all us irresponsible folks who traveled for thanksgiving.

I am SO over this.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 15, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
So will you get the vaccine when it is available? Why or why not? And as a follow up question, do you regularly get the flu shot?

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on December 15, 2020, 09:29:02 AM
My family will get it but I'm not in a hurry.  I'm fine waiting a few months to see how the data shakes out.

I have not historically gotten the flu shot but I have the past 2 years and will continue to do so.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on December 15, 2020, 10:23:57 AM
Same as Ober. We'll get it once it's readily available, but we're not anxious to get it fast. I never used to get a flu shot, but after having kids I've been getting it every year.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on December 15, 2020, 10:25:54 AM
Also, Ontario will issue proof of vaccination. Getting the vaccine is voluntary, but people who don't have it could face restrictions. https://globalnews.ca/news/7508640/ontario-to-issue-proof-of-coronavirus-vaccine/
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on December 15, 2020, 10:47:50 AM
Same as Ober. We'll get it once it's readily available, but we're not anxious to get it fast. I never used to get a flu shot, but after having kids I've been getting it every year.

This is exactly the same answer for me, for both questions.
I got my flu shot earlier in the fall (its mandated for work now anyway...and my kids have to get it for school too)
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on December 15, 2020, 11:48:34 AM
When it's offered to me (I'm estimating within the month if supply chain is okay) I will be getting it. We will also be receiving proof of vaccination although I have no idea what it would be used for, cause it definitely doesn't mean you're exempt from current guidelines.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on December 15, 2020, 11:49:19 AM
And yes, I've gotten the flu shot every year since working.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on December 15, 2020, 01:24:25 PM
Just got my flu shot Sunday. We’ve been getting it every year since we had kids (although now I’d get it every year regardless just because it benefits others).

As for the COVID-19 vaccine, I'd get it today if I could... seems like there’s already enough data on safety versus benefit to ease my concerns. But unfortunately supplies are limited so since I’m low risk I’ll wait until other folks get theirs and more become available.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on December 15, 2020, 02:06:17 PM
When it's offered to me (I'm estimating within the month if supply chain is okay) I will be getting it. We will also be receiving proof of vaccination although I have no idea what it would be used for, cause it definitely doesn't mean you're exempt from current guidelines.

Here they've been saying proof of vaccination could be a requirement for entrance to public events, like concerts etc...
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on December 15, 2020, 04:46:26 PM
2 people I work with said today that they know people that got it today or are getting it tomorrow.  Both are healthcare workers.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 16, 2020, 05:57:38 PM
Just a quick update: my wife and kids all tested positive for the covid antibodies. My kiddos pediatrician said that my son most likely had covid last Christmas when we ended up in the hospital because he couldn't breathe. She said he had a large amount of antibodies and that coupled with hardly any symptoms a few weeks ago points in that direction.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 16, 2020, 06:01:29 PM
As for the vaccine, i doubt we will get it. We never get the flu shot and this is not any different. It would be a huge intrusion of rights if the government made the covid vaccine mandatory to conduct business, access certain places, etc.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on December 16, 2020, 11:19:34 PM
Lol, why am I not surprised that this selfish motherfucker over here says he's not taking the vaccine.

I'm shocked. Shocked!
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on December 16, 2020, 11:35:17 PM
Jake - why don't you get the flu shot?  Trust me, I didn't start getting it until a few years ago but then someone else changed my mind.  I don't want to lead you so I'm curious what your reasoning is?

Because you've all had the virus, I realize there's potentially less of a need to get the vaccine but what I'm reading from the CDC indicates that the 'natural immunity' doesn't last as long as some think.  Curious about your reasoning.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 16, 2020, 11:55:57 PM
[
Jake - why don't you get the flu shot?  Trust me, I didn't start getting it until a few years ago but then someone else changed my mind.  I don't want to lead you so I'm curious what your reasoning is?

Because you've all had the virus, I realize there's potentially less of a need to get the vaccine but what I'm reading from the CDC indicates that the 'natural immunity' doesn't last as long as some think.  Curious about your reasoning.

I don't know if there is a single good reason for not getting the flu shot - i guess the flu never affected us real bad, and we take steps throughout the year to keep our immunity up. With the vaccine being hit or miss most of the years, it is something we just chose not to do.

Same reasoning goes for not getting the covid vaccine. There are still things we need to learn about covida and even though mortality rate is higher than seasonal flu - it is still very very low. And that is also the reason  why I think some of the draconian measures taken by some states don't make much sense. As you say, going through it does play a role in the decision making...and as for natural vs vaccine provided immunity, i don't know enough about the difference. I'm not ruling it out for the future, but in the near future we will not be getting the covid shot.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 17, 2020, 12:04:10 AM
Lol, why am I not surprised that this selfish motherfucker over here says he's not taking the vaccine.

I'm shocked. Shocked!

Finally Charlie! Let it all out, why don't you :) haha, you are funny indeed.

I can tell you that when we got the symptoms we all isolated for two weeks...really isolated. We wear masks and observe social distancing when in public. We do not, however, let the fear of this cold run our lives.

Charlie, thank you for being so brave: and since I know you love me the videos i post, here is another one:

https://youtu.be/b-LHdEUrGa8

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on December 17, 2020, 12:26:03 AM
We do not, however, let the fear of this cold run our lives.

I don't know what this has to do with whether you'd take a vaccine or flu shot. Doing those things for people like you (relatively young and healthy) is as much about protecting your fellow human beings as it is about protecting yourself. We're all inherently selfish creatures and often selfish actions are warranted, but the fact that your explanations talk only about the effects on yourself and your family make it clear that you're dismissing any potential benefit for others as essentially meaningless.

I do commend you for following the isolation guidelines and in the case of the COVID vaccine I actually don't think it makes sense for you to get it. Maybe in a year or so if there is plenty of supply and if the disease hasn't been eradicated and if science shows that natural immunity doesn't last long, then maybe I'd suggest considering taking that shot. But for now leave it for the high risk folks who haven't already gotten it.


Oh, and I watched the video for you, thanks for picking one that was only a few minutes. But it was just trolling and I don't think there was any serious point being made so I don't really have anything to say about it. If you think there is any serious point being made feel free to say so and I'd be happy to engage.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 17, 2020, 12:45:49 AM
I don't think the video is trolling, it is on point satire.

Btw, charlie, I'm curious about what you think about your Governor?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 17, 2020, 12:47:39 AM
And charlie, you called me selfish without knowing my reasoning behind not getting the covid shot - tsk tsk
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 17, 2020, 12:54:42 AM
Hey Charlie, are small business owners that are going against local lock down rules selfish as well?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 17, 2020, 01:00:56 AM
Charlie, you're fast to shame and critique people for not wearing a mask or not taking the covid vaccine because they are "not thinking of others" - yet you're pro choice. Why aren't you thinking of the lives that never happen because they are killed in the womb?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on December 17, 2020, 01:04:09 AM
And charlie, you called me selfish without knowing my reasoning behind not getting the covid shot - tsk tsk

Ha! I totally called it. You literally explained your reasoning in two full paragraphs and didn't once talk about anything other than how it would affect you or your family.

We've known you long enough for me to guess that you didn't have some higher level thought process or secret altruism going on. Kinda funny that you spelled it out so quickly and clearly but the sarcasm was real. I was not, in fact, shocked.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 17, 2020, 01:11:13 AM
I would also not immediately dismiss the distrust toward the vaccine: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study

40 years
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 17, 2020, 01:12:59 AM
And charlie, you called me selfish without knowing my reasoning behind not getting the covid shot - tsk tsk

Ha! I totally called it. You literally explained your reasoning in two full paragraphs and didn't once talk about anything other than how it would affect you or your family.

We've known you long enough for me to guess that you didn't have some higher level thought process or secret altruism going on. Kinda funny that you spelled it out so quickly and clearly but the sarcasm was real. I was not, in fact, shocked.

I'm not saying you were wrong, I'm saying you made an assumption - i thought you would normally fret when similar assumptions were made by others :)
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on December 17, 2020, 01:29:46 AM
And charlie, you called me selfish without knowing my reasoning behind not getting the covid shot - tsk tsk

Ha! I totally called it. You literally explained your reasoning in two full paragraphs and didn't once talk about anything other than how it would affect you or your family.

We've known you long enough for me to guess that you didn't have some higher level thought process or secret altruism going on. Kinda funny that you spelled it out so quickly and clearly but the sarcasm was real. I was not, in fact, shocked.

I'm not saying you were wrong, I'm saying you made an assumption - i thought you would normally fret when similar assumptions were made by others :)

Another good call! I called you out for that in the post I'm about to post. But to be fair I called you selfish in jest/teasing not trying to make a serious argument and also I wasn't wrong. ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on December 17, 2020, 01:30:17 AM
I don't think the video is trolling, it is on point satire.

But that's the problem. It's not really on point at all. It is an extreme exaggeration of the views it aims to satirize. It is really only interesting to people who believe that those aren't exaggerations.

Btw, charlie, I'm curious about what you think about your Governor?

There are good and bad things about him. Overall I'm not a huge fan relative to a generic Democrat. I don't think he did a great job on COVID but compared to other governors I guess it's hard to complain.

Hey Charlie, are small business owners that are going against local lock down rules selfish as well?

Yes? I mean, isn't that by definition selfish? They're presumably going against the rules (which has costs for society and the individuals in it) in order to benefit themselves by reducing economic harm. Obviously there are other things involved as presumably they have employees that would benefit as well, and in this question you don't really talk about what rules are being broken and why, but yeah you could say that's at least in part selfish.

Charlie, you're fast to shame and critique people

Am I? I'm not sure that's actually true.

Charlie, you're fast to shame and critique people for not wearing a mask or not taking the covid vaccine because they are "not thinking of others" - yet you're pro choice. Why aren't you thinking of the lives that never happen because they are killed in the womb?

Probably going beyond the scope of this thread. But (a) how do you know I'm pro-choice? Did I say I was recently? It's an odd tangent to go on as I'm not terribly dogmatic about that particular issue. More importantly, (b) who says pro-choice folks don't think of the lives that never happen? And finally (c) one could ask the same question of both a pro-choice and a pro-life position, as in why aren't pro-life people thinking of the pregnant woman? In summary, it's not really a good question. If you want to talk about abortion maybe start a separate thread (and apologize to ober who will probably shit a brick as we tackle one of the most contentious topics in American politics just after he said how much he wanted to avoid that stuff).

I would also not immediately dismiss the distrust toward the vaccine: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study

40 years

Things are never black and white, 100% good or 100% bad. I think the situation here makes it pretty clear that the benefits are worth the risks.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 17, 2020, 09:36:04 AM
This guy is pretty funny :D

https://youtu.be/TN7s0-FuIEM
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on December 17, 2020, 09:42:55 AM
Charlie made my point about the vaccine/flu shot pretty clearly - both are less about you and more about the community in general.  Even in the case of the flu shot, even though it doesn't cover all the strains, if enough people get it, SOME of the strains are largely off the table and that's a good thing.

Jake, pointing to the Tuskegee Study and relating it to the COVID vaccine is a pretty far stretch.  That is a WILDLY different scenario and I hope you can see that.  And bringing up abortion in relation to this?  Really?  I will say one thing, and one thing only on that topic because you are hitting a standard republican argument that grinds my gears.  I am pro-choice POLITICALLY.  I am pro-life PERSONALLY.  This falls in line with many other political choices I make.  It is not up to ME, how YOU handle things that affect YOUR PERSONAL life.  It's none of my business how you decide things like that.  That's why it's called 'pro-CHOICE' not 'PRO-KILL-ALL-THE-BABIES'.  Until the republicans can get that concept through their thick fucking skulls and stay out of people's lives, we won't get anywhere.  It's funny... republicans claim to be the party of 'less government', but it's ONLY when it comes to money.  They want to govern the fuck out of anything that goes against their moral fiber, which goes against the separation of church and state.  Interesting, isn't it?

/rant
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on December 17, 2020, 01:52:25 PM
Hey Jake, how's your sense of smell and taste doing? You said you were 50% a little bit ago and I'm wondering how that's measured.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 17, 2020, 03:57:08 PM
Hey Jake, how's your sense of smell and taste doing? You said you were 50% a little bit ago and I'm wondering how that's measured.

The measurement is not scientific :p but both senses are back fully for a little over a week now
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 18, 2020, 03:51:54 PM
Quote
It is not up to ME, how YOU handle things that affect YOUR PERSONAL life.  It's none of my business how you decide things like that.  That's why it's called 'pro-CHOICE

So with that said, the vaccine should also be a choice and not a requirement - my body my choice - right?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on December 18, 2020, 06:49:42 PM
But the issue is if you're an asymptomatic carrier, it's no longer just your body and your choice. You are now potentially putting other people at risk for your choice. Despite the belief of many we don't have unlimited freedoms. We give up some for the better interest of society as a whole. And while I used to be further on the right and believe people can make the decisions own their own, I think this pandemic has clearly shown that people make bad decisions.

It amazes me that I'm even on this side of things. I guess I've changed as I've gotten older and seen that society is irresponsible as a whole.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on December 18, 2020, 06:52:32 PM
And while you (I assume) and others might be responsible and wear masks in public to prevent spreading disease we've unfortunately seen too many people act horribly and basically ruin it for everyone I think.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on December 19, 2020, 03:14:01 PM
One important aspect of libertarianism is that it's not that you should have the freedom or liberty to do whatever you want. It's that you should have the freedom to do as you want as long as you don't infringe on the liberties of others. Similar to the whole shouting "fire" in a crowded theater thing. There could be an analogy to be made with abortion but that presupposes you consider a fetus to have the same rights as baby already born, which is not something that everyone agrees with and is part of why the issue is so thorny.


Given all that, though, I would agree that forced vaccinations by the government should generally be avoided. I do wonder why do you keep mentioning that, Jake. Do you think it likely that vaccinations will be forced? I think that's extremely unlikely and not something worth worrying about.

At worst, vaccinations may be required in order to attend certain public and private events. I assume you'd agree private events should be allowed to have that requirement if they want. So really the question is whether the government should be allowed to require vaccination in order to participate in a public gathering (like school). This is where the idea of your freedom not infringing on others freedom is most important. You're free to skip the vaccination but not free to potentially expose other people to a disease because of it.


Anyway, at this point we don't have enough doses to worry about forced vaccination so it's really just a thought experiment. For now we should just be hoping that as many high-risk people get it as possible.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on December 19, 2020, 04:19:26 PM
Quote
It is not up to ME, how YOU handle things that affect YOUR PERSONAL life.  It's none of my business how you decide things like that.  That's why it's called 'pro-CHOICE

So with that said, the vaccine should also be a choice and not a requirement - my body my choice - right?
Yes.... but all the stuff Hans and Charlie said.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 20, 2020, 12:18:38 AM
Quote
Given all that, though, I would agree that forced vaccinations by the government should generally be avoided. I do wonder why do you keep mentioning that, Jake. Do you think it likely that vaccinations will be forced? I think that's extremely unlikely and not something worth worrying about.

I also doubt that these vaccinations will be mandated, but i do think they will be forced be default. For example, you will not be able to enter a court house, or a dmv, or another public building without having proof of vaccination. I think that is plausible in many leftist states.

Quote
I assume you'd agree private events should be allowed to have that requirement if they want.

Indeed. Just like i agree that bakery owners have the right to refuse to bake a wedding cake for a homosexual couple.

Quote
But the issue is if you're an asymptomatic carrier, it's no longer just your body and your choice. You are now potentially putting other people at risk for your choice. Despite the belief of many we don't have unlimited freedoms. We give up some for the better interest of society as a whole. And while I used to be further on the right and believe people can make the decisions own their own, I think this pandemic has clearly shown that people make bad decisions.

It amazes me that I'm even on this side of things. I guess I've changed as I've gotten older and seen that society is irresponsible as a whole.

Yes, but we have to keep everything in perspective. This virus has an over 99% survival rate. It is probably closer to 99.9% if we would take into account a the unreported cases. So how does it differ from the flu, for example?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on December 20, 2020, 02:00:28 AM
I also doubt that these vaccinations will be mandated, but i do think they will be forced be default. For example, you will not be able to enter a court house, or a dmv, or another public building without having proof of vaccination. I think that is plausible in many leftist states.
So really the question is whether the government should be allowed to require vaccination in order to participate in a public gathering (like school). This is where the idea of your freedom not infringing on others freedom is most important. You're free to skip the vaccination but not free to potentially expose other people to a disease because of it.


Yes, but we have to keep everything in perspective. This virus has an over 99% survival rate. It is probably closer to 99.9% if we would take into account a the unreported cases. So how does it differ from the flu, for example?

Dude I really worry about your sources of information. Yes, it very much differs from the flu. The flu doesn't kill 300,000 people in a year.

(Jake says, but doctors and coroners put COVID-19 on all the death certificates because reasons, it hasn't actually killed that many people).
Here's deaths from all causes this year compared to previous years. Notice any outlier? This was not a normal year.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpjbCXjXcAAx6Ow?format=png&name=medium)

(Jake says the deaths were due to the lockdowns, not the disease itself?)
I'm not going to look it all up but there's lots of data that shows this is not the case.



By the way, if it was actually 99.9% survival rate, then note that 0.1% of 328 million is 328,000. As in dead humans. Yes. Let's keep things in perspective.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on December 20, 2020, 02:06:53 AM
Why does it surprise me that you're ok with homosexual discrimination?  I mean I guess it shouldn't based on other things you've said.  I'm just surprised.

If you don't see the difference at this point, with all the evidence, between this virus and the flu, I feel really bad for you.  Many, many public health officials have said why it's different.  For you to continue to say that just kind of blows my mind. 

Flu season (Oct 2019 - Apr 2020): https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm  Deaths = 24-62K deaths
In that same period of time (roughly), the US has seen over 300K deaths due to COVID and that's with us actively trying to prevent the spread.  We don't take any of these measures with the flu.  Imagine what it would look like if we did none of the preventative stuff.  You don't see hospitals overwhelmed and hundreds or thousands of people on ventilators in individual cities with the flu!

How.... how do you not see the difference!?!?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 31, 2020, 01:50:25 PM
Brilliant :D
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on January 01, 2021, 12:12:37 PM
No response to my question?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 11, 2021, 03:30:16 PM
So... it's been a year since the day the shit really hit the fan.

We were already serious about COVID in this thread well before March 11, but that was the day the WHO labeled it a pandemic, Trump suspended European travel, the NBA shut down, and Tom Hanks announced he had it. For me it was also the day a big birthday party for my niece and nephew was "postponed" and two days before our school closed.


I don't know if we realized then that it would be more than a year before things started to return to normalcy, but I'm pretty optimistic now that it won't be long until case counts in most places are low and I and people I care about are vaccinated so we can get back to how we'd like to live.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on March 11, 2021, 04:16:56 PM
I'm still hoping by fall, but that might be optimistic.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Betazep on March 12, 2021, 06:33:52 AM
I am really hoping Europe will be in better shape by summer... but I think it is unlikely.  Would love to take the kids to LegoLand.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on March 12, 2021, 07:54:41 AM
How are vaccinations going in Europe?  I have no concept outside of the US.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Rob on March 12, 2021, 09:33:22 AM
In the UK just over 23 million (from a population of 66.6 million) have had at least the first of 2 vaccinations.

We're starting with the older and at-risk population.

On a personal note, mine is due on Saturday.

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on March 12, 2021, 03:02:24 PM
I hear UK is doing great, US is doing good, and Europe is not doing well at all.

I'm expecting that some time in May I and anybody here who wants one will be able to get one. My wife is actually scheduled today for her first Pfizer shot. (She gets an early one since she's a teacher.)
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on May 04, 2021, 06:04:37 PM
So who's vaccinated and how are our lives returning to normal?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on May 04, 2021, 06:13:15 PM
My wife is vaccinated and I got my first shot a week or so ago. We haven't changed much about our habits yet, but we have visited my mom and sisters in person and indoors for the first time in a year after they were fully vaccinated. So that was great. I'm not really an emotional guy but those were some pretty long hugs.

I have one daughter back in school (the other opted out). It's not really that much better than distance learning but at least it gets her out of the house. I'm hopeful for full-time back to school starting in the fall.

Going to Disneyland in July. Kids are super excited about that.

Looking forward to being able to watch a movie. We'll probably wait for them to be fully vaccinated which should be within a couple months, but maybe my wife and I will go on a date before then.

So still kinda waiting for it to be over but changes are happening. Very lucky to live in a place with low cases counts too.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on May 04, 2021, 11:51:42 PM
I hit 2 weeks post second dose last Friday so I'm fully 'covered' at this point.  I take my wife for her second shot tomorrow.  I'm hearing we could get the kids vaccinated as early as next week or the week after.  We are having my in-laws over for mother's day this weekend.  I think that's the biggest change for us.  Both kids are still remote.  My job has decided to be primarily remote indefinitely but I suspect that later this summer I'll start going in a day a week or something like that.  My wife and I didn't do much of anything for our 17th anniversary a few weeks ago but we do have a date planned for a distanced outdoor concert in July. 

My in-laws are fully vaccinated as is my wife's brother and his wife.  My dad is fully vaccinated and my mom should have just gotten her second dose.  My sister is a nurse and got vaccinated in December.  My brother and his wife have apparently gone off the rails and are anti-vax.  Kinda surprising to me.  And apparently my mom's side of the family is pretty split on the topic and people feel pretty strongly on both sides of it.  That's also odd to me because we have so many people in the medical field in the family. I had hoped some of them wouldn't be so stubborn.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on May 05, 2021, 12:57:32 PM
got my first dose on 4/25 and go back for #2 on 5/23.
Still working from home - apparently, indifferently - kids have been back in school 4-days a week for about a month now. Masks are still mandatory everywhere (so like, kids playing baseball/softball wear them on the field...its weird but at least they have a season this year)
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on May 05, 2021, 02:02:24 PM
Canada is really behind on vaccinations, they can't import them fast enough. In my area they are still doing first round for people 55+ and 18+ if you are in a hot-spot neighbourhood. Most of the country is also scheduling 4 months between the first and second shot which is against the manufacturers recommendation...
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on May 05, 2021, 02:18:29 PM
Everything is pretty much wide open here - indoor dining etc. Many local places are not requiring masks - like our kids BJJ place. Things are getting close to feeling normal - at least around here.

We went to an art exhibit a couple weekends ago downtown Chicago. Masks mandatory, even for pictures (!), unless you buy a drink. Haha. :D what a crock.

Since we moved, our kids are remote - and that is weighing on them since almost everyone else is back in person - good thing they only have like 3 weeks left.

My wife is also remote but is volunteering to be one of the first to go back to the office. She can't wait.

We didn't get vaccinated and are not planning too unless we have to in order to travel to Poland...
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on May 05, 2021, 10:27:28 PM
So who's vaccinated and how are our lives returning to normal?

I got vaccinated back in March and the wife got her vaccination completed in April.  It allowed us to travel to Michigan to celebrate my nephew's college graduation and commissioning into the Navy.  All of us who shared the house were vaccinated and it was really nice to not have to worry.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on May 06, 2021, 12:29:12 AM
So weird to see all the different situations.  No one here in northeast Ohio had any issues getting one once the age groups opened up.  And every single person had the second dose exactly 3 weeks later that I know of.  They were just scheduled that way.  I'm shocked that other places are taking the chance against the recommendation.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on May 06, 2021, 12:54:19 AM
it was really nice to not have to worry.

Isn’t that great?! I was able to take my grandma out to eat for her 96th birthday. First time she’d really been out of her apartment in over a year. (We ate outside since my kids and I weren’t vaccinated but luckily we live in a place with nice weather so it was all good.)

I really think the US should be putting a lot of money and effort into vaccinating the world. It’s the right thing to do of course but even if you want to think selfishly or America first it’s beneficial for us to have the global economy running better and people not dying.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on May 06, 2021, 09:46:33 AM
Yeah, without the vaccine I probably wouldn't have made the trip.  During the planning stages (before everyone got vaccinated) we were planning on staying distant and wearing masks which would have really sucked.  But since we were all vaccinated and the CDC updated their guidance (and the people there were the safer group of the family) we felt comfortable hugging and forgoing the masks.

This trip was also the first time I dined-in in over a year and it was a surreal experience.  And not just because we were sitting looking out over the river to Canada ;)

I agree that the US should help other countries as it helps the global economy (and is morally the right thing to do) but I'm also fine with us being a bit selfish and focusing on us first.  We are spent and are spending a ton of money on it.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on May 06, 2021, 11:59:25 AM
Shot one down, second next week. Very much looking forward to things getting back to "normal".
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on May 06, 2021, 01:42:56 PM
> I'm shocked that other places are taking the chance against the recommendation.

The idea is that it's better for more people to get their first shot fast, rather than half as many people getting both shots 3 weeks apart. But it's a theory with no evidence so... :dunno:
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on May 06, 2021, 01:51:54 PM
Oh, I've heard the reasoning behind it.  But I have also worked in the clinical trial world and saw some of the adverse events when people don't do what the manufacturers suggest.  Some of that shit is nightmare fuel.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on May 06, 2021, 02:08:55 PM
> I'm shocked that other places are taking the chance against the recommendation.

The idea is that it's better for more people to get their first shot fast, rather than half as many people getting both shots 3 weeks apart. But it's a theory with no evidence so... :dunno:

that's the same thing they are doing in Poland. My folks had the first shot 4 weeks ago but have to wait for the second until mid June.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on May 06, 2021, 03:00:46 PM
I think it's a good call if you have limited supply. The length of time for the second dose is somewhat arbitrary and just based on what they tested. I believe it was even reduced from the expected optimal timeframe in order to speed up the trials. Since there is evidence that a single dose of the three vaccines in the U.S. all have high efficacy then I'm in favor of having a larger gap to the second dose.

That said, 4 months does seem like a long time. The 8 weeks in Poland sounds like a better balance.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on May 07, 2021, 09:15:05 AM
does the longer wait between shots reduce side-effects with the second dose?  Almost everyone I know who's gotten both shots has had somewhere between noticeably uncomfortable symptoms and straight-up feel-like-dying sickness for about a day after the second shot.  Anecdotally, a high school friend posted on facebook that his mother spiked a 105+ fever and had to be hospitalized for a day after her 2nd shot.

My 2nd shot is in 2 weeks. I'm kinda nervous -- like, I don't think I'll die or anything but, I hate feeling sick and I'm really not looking forward to that part.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on May 07, 2021, 10:41:12 AM
does the longer wait between shots reduce side-effects with the second dose?  Almost everyone I know who's gotten both shots has had somewhere between noticeably uncomfortable symptoms and straight-up feel-like-dying sickness for about a day after the second shot.  Anecdotally, a high school friend posted on facebook that his mother spiked a 105+ fever and had to be hospitalized for a day after her 2nd shot.

My 2nd shot is in 2 weeks. I'm kinda nervous -- like, I don't think I'll die or anything but, I hate feeling sick and I'm really not looking forward to that part.

I've seen the opposite from people that I know who took the shot: symptoms only after 1st shot, but not the second.

I'll wonder how my mom will do after second shot - she had flu like symptoms with temp 103+ for 48 hours after the first shot. My dad and grandparents had no side effects after first shot.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on May 07, 2021, 12:17:34 PM
My arm hurt for 2 days after the second and I was a little tired but otherwise I had no issues.  My wife just got her second and she felt like death for a full 24 hours - couldn't sleep, massive body aches, chest/back pain, couldn't lift her arm.  Then it all sort of lifted last night and she was doing much better this morning.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on May 07, 2021, 03:47:41 PM
does the longer wait between shots reduce side-effects with the second dose?  Almost everyone I know who's gotten both shots has had somewhere between noticeably uncomfortable symptoms and straight-up feel-like-dying sickness for about a day after the second shot.  Anecdotally, a high school friend posted on facebook that his mother spiked a 105+ fever and had to be hospitalized for a day after her 2nd shot.

My 2nd shot is in 2 weeks. I'm kinda nervous -- like, I don't think I'll die or anything but, I hate feeling sick and I'm really not looking forward to that part.

The completely anecdotal experience here is that people that Pfizer had less reactions on the second shot than those that got Moderna.  So, maybe that extra week makes it worse?

I got Moderna and the first shot I had a lot of soreness in the arm for a day or two.  The second shot I had less soreness but was more tired the next day and ended taking a half day off.  Now, that could have just been a bad night's sleep issue and unrelated.  But nothing major.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on May 07, 2021, 06:44:00 PM
You actually want some sort of side effects on the second shot. That's your body telling you it's working and building your immunity. I've heard a range on second shots so it's really a coin flip. I haven't heard of anyone I know getting more than tired for a day. We get our second next week. I'll report back.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on May 11, 2021, 01:55:17 AM
Pfizer was authorized for ages 12-15 today, and a couple hours later we got a reminder that our high school had a vaccination clinic for ages 16 and up. But a few minutes after that they sent another notification that ages 12-15 could come, too.

We booked it over and were about 20th in line. By the time we left there were probably another 100 people waiting. They were expecting a total of 30 people in the three hours before the news about the 12-15 age group came.

So my eldest got her first shot. Woot! My younger kid actually doesn't turn twelve for a few more days, so we're hoping they're still doing the clinic next week.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on June 14, 2021, 09:43:53 AM
Whelp, today we start going back to the office.  They want everyone back in two days a week and the departments staffed every day.  I'll be going in today and tomorrow morning to assist getting the programmers set back up.  Then we'll be following a pod approach except I'll bounce between the two once a week (to meet with them, have 1-on-1s, etc).

Wasn't really that nervous until this weekend but now I am.  Got used to not going into the office except for a few times to get something.  Now, to go back to the office with so many other people just feels like a lot.  I'm sure it'll be fine...
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on June 14, 2021, 10:07:41 AM
I went back into the office 2 weeks ago for the first time to 'work'.  Our company has said we will be WFH first going forward.  I know some people have been going in just to be around others a few times a week but it's only handful.  Most are still WFH full time.  I've only been going in for 'summit' type of meetings.

On another note, my kids got their second dose on Saturday.  They both had a pretty rough 24 hours but seem to be doing much better today.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on June 14, 2021, 11:53:42 AM
how old are your kids now? I haven't really been following the news so I'm not up on what agest have been approved at this point.  my girls are only 8 and 11.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on June 14, 2021, 02:07:28 PM
My son is 12 and my daughter is 14.  The vaccine is approved for 12-15 year-olds.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on June 15, 2021, 01:30:29 AM
We don't have an office to go back to so I haven't done that. But we did watch a movie in the theater and start dining indoors again. My youngest turned 12 just as the vaccine was authorized for her age so now both kids and their parents have had their two doses already.

It's pretty much back to normal for us. We continue to wear masks where required but otherwise we're feeling pretty lucky to not really have to worry right now. Heading to Disneyland next month and Japan in the fall. I can't really think of anything we wouldn't do at this point unless there's an outbreak.

Our biggest concerns are still elsewhere. Other countries who don't have vaccines are poised to get hit hard with new variants and I just don't get the apparent lack of urgency to stamp this out before most of the world heads into winter at the end of the year.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on June 15, 2021, 11:21:09 AM
I just don't get the apparent lack of urgency to stamp this out before most of the world heads into winter at the end of the year.

Because it's not currently "our" problem. Very short sighted thinking, but part of the isolationism ideals about half the country has. There are plenty of people thinking like you though that more needs to be done, and quickly, before a variant becomes globally problematic.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on June 15, 2021, 01:18:44 PM
Yeah, but even the current administration who agrees that we should be helping the rest of the world doesn't seem to have the urgency I would expect. :|

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on June 15, 2021, 02:39:10 PM
I mean.... they just donated 500 million doses.  That's not nothing.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on June 17, 2021, 06:57:57 PM
There are over 7.8 billion people in the world. If 2.5 billion already have gotten vaccinated... that's 5.3 billion people left.

500 million isn't nothing, but it doesn't show any real sense of urgency either.

We've known this would be an issue for months and months. As soon as we got 90% efficacy data last year on the vaccines (and actually well before then) we should have been planning on how to vaccinate the entire world as quickly as possible with a realistic target of getting most everybody by winter in the northern hemisphere.

Hell even if you're America First this should have been a priority given how variants can still wreak havoc here if the rest of the world doesn't get vaccinated.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on June 19, 2021, 11:42:51 AM
So.... it's our responsibility to take care of the rest of the world?  If 10 other countries did the same as us, problem solved.  I don't think that's unreasonable.  I get the 'it's everyone's problem', but I'm tired of our country trying to fix everything everywhere.  I'm not all super 'America First', but other countries need to have that mentality or we're all fucked.  There are too many countries just hoping the larger economies will swoop in and save everything.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on June 21, 2021, 02:59:01 AM
>> it's our responsibility?

No, it isn't. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.

I mean, if you think it's worth potentially a million more people dying just so that other countries learn that we're not always going to be there to save everything then I guess your position makes sense (except for the part about it also being worth it because it could very likely save American lives, too).

Honestly I don't see a difference between that and people who haven't been infected skipping vaccination, or people regularly going maskless indoors before the vaccines came out. In each of these cases we're asking people to consider the needs of others and do something that helps themselves a little and others a lot while not really being all that difficult to do.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on June 21, 2021, 08:18:00 AM
I think you're twisting my words a bit.  I'm not saying we shouldn't do it.  My question is, why aren't any of the other larger countries doing their part?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on June 21, 2021, 12:00:06 PM
Ok, fair. I've got no problem with that question being asked if it isn't meant as an excuse for our country to not do anything.

My criticism isn't limited to the U.S. It also applies to every other country that has secured and administered plenty of doses of the vaccine and has the means and capability to distribute more around the world and push manufacturing forward to make enough for everybody ASAP.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on July 02, 2021, 01:57:20 PM
Well, I now know of at least one person who left (not from my team) because of the return to office.  He moved to another school with full-time telecommute.

Work just announced moving to three days a week.  Meeting with our manager to discuss it this afternoon.  Surveying our team to find out what days work for them but also to gauge the response to it.  Going to push to keep us at no more than 2 days / week.  I was going to wait for it to settle down but since management announced the change I guess it is time to bring it up.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on July 30, 2021, 09:55:49 AM
Looks like we're headed back to wearing masks.  One of the guys at work just told me that even though him and his wife were vaccinated, that his wife got COVID.  I don't know if her being pregnant has anything to do with it but I guess she falls into that small percentage.  And it sucks for him too because they've been super careful.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on July 30, 2021, 10:31:05 AM
Getting COVID is probably inevitable, but being vaccinated against it massively increases the odds it's not going to kill you (captain obvious). I'm still baffled but just how poorly US society has dealt with this. I think it shows just how arrogant we've become collectively.

I'd love to see us just all (or mostly all) wear masks each fall/winter and knock down the flu each year, which I think is probably the measure we should set for how bad COVID is doing.

And I'm equally confused by the back to work thing. Companies are like we all need to be in the office and be together, yet I'm pretty sure that's exactly the opposite of what we should be doing to limit continuing spread. And a tiny rant of the outdated idea that people need to be together for collaboration when most teams probably have some remote people anyways is just silly too.

I've still been wearing a mask even though I'm vaccinated since I'm pretty sure they're still unsure if you can be a carrier and infect other people who are unable to get the vaccine or immunocompromised and thus stuck with the vaccine not helping them out.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on July 30, 2021, 12:05:58 PM
Yeah, I've only really stopped wearing a mask in the past month and still wear them in some places.  And I'm surprised by your comment about the company thing.  Most companies around here have pretty much gone 'remote first' (specifically my company) but I guess I have heard of others that are pushing people back into the office.  I also don't see the point in rushing people back into buildings.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on July 30, 2021, 12:37:16 PM
My wife's big financial company is trying to get people back in (and failing) and lots of the ones around here are trying to get people back in the office. Thankfully my company has no plans yet, even though we just leased a new office about six months before the pandemic. I think it's going to be interesting seeing how this all shakes out for the big companies that are doing the mandate thing. Also seems lots of companies are doing "remote" things but requiring some days per week in the office which seems silly too. This whole thing highlights just how clueless we all are. Same goes for schools I think.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on July 30, 2021, 12:40:54 PM
I'm not looking forward to going back even though we have a nice office. I've invested in my home setup and really like my big widescreen monitor and desk. I can probably get them to buy me one but what's the point? I think we've done pretty well with Zoom calls and Slack thus far and with the occasional office get together, which can wait a few more months, I think it's likely we'll just let people work where they want and get a smaller space when our lease is up. We were a distributed company before the pandemic so we already had a pretty good system in place for the folks that weren't centrally located near the office.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on July 30, 2021, 03:45:57 PM
Sacramento county just started mandating masks for everyone when indoors.  Work just had us go from 2 days/week in office to 3 starting this week.  I tried to keep my team on 2 days but the big boss said no.  The sucky part is that per the mandate rules we'd have to wear the mask all day at our desk as we don't have individual offices.  So, hoping they relax the in-office requirement.

As for remote vs in-office:  Honestly, in-office has some benefits (quick collaborations, better non-verbal feedback [and even minor vocalizations]) that shouldn't be dismissed.  But, I think it is a bad idea to force everyone back in.  We are also fighting the "we need to be equatable to everyone" mentality where the programmers need to be in 3 days because the accounting staff need to be 3 days.


I will say though, one good thing is that I don't feel weird wearing a mask when I'm not feeling 100%.  Earlier in the week I had a couple days where I wasn't feeling great but didn't think it was serious but I threw a mask on when going out (groceries / drive thru).
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on July 30, 2021, 04:51:55 PM
I will say though, one good thing is that I don't feel weird wearing a mask when I'm not feeling 100%.  Earlier in the week I had a couple days where I wasn't feeling great but didn't think it was serious but I threw a mask on when going out (groceries / drive thru).

I'm really hoping we can keep that part without it being awkward. The rest of the world seems to have figured it out except us. A little signal to say stay away from me.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on July 30, 2021, 05:57:03 PM
> A little signal to say stay away from me.

Hell, in that case I'd always wear it in public ;)
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on August 04, 2021, 01:59:31 PM
Because of the mask mandate we had to wear our masks at the office even while at our desks.  Yesterday we did a full day of that and man does it suck.  Gained a new appreciation for the grocery works, servers, medical staff, etc that have to wear them all day while working.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Betazep on September 11, 2021, 07:46:56 PM
My boss recently got the delta variant after getting both vaccines quite some time ago.  He was laid out for two weeks, but he is convinced if he hadn't had the vaccines, he would be dead right now.

What a time to be alive... the stories we can tell the younger generations.  "Back in my day, all the stores sold out of toilet paper due to a virus."
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on September 13, 2021, 08:10:28 AM
My son has been back in school for 2 weeks.  We've gotten emails TWICE just from his class with kids testing positive.  I feel like this is going to be worse than before.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on September 13, 2021, 10:36:01 AM
What a time to be alive... the stories we can tell the younger generations.  "Back in my day, all the stores sold out of toilet paper due to a virus."

this whole thread is an epic recap of the days leading up to the craziness. I enjoyed just now reading some of my early comments...

I think it's sort of being blown out of proportion.  Based on the numbers, it's not even as deadly as the normal flu from what I heard.  Yes it spreads but so does the normal flu.  Maybe I'm missing something but I think we'd all be better off if this was just treated like another strain of what we get every year.

I agree with this, but would caveat that this hyper-awareness is a great way to also stop the spread of the flu and other, more common viruses.  Screening at airports and forced quarantine, required hand washing in certain areas, or normalizing the wearing of protective masks, could all help reduce easily transmitted pathogens. There's a balance there somewhere between an abundance-of-caution and civil/personal liberties...but this is an interesting real-world case study of how we can prepare for both pandemic and regional-viral outbreaks.

Is the toilet paper shortage in your area as well, or is this a regional problem?
Everywhere is sold out - super markets, walmart... i'm down to one roll.  This is ridiculous.

It's weird how so much of this feels like the days after 9/11, but without all the sadness, patriotism or anger.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on September 13, 2021, 12:05:16 PM
Man, I sound like an anti-vaxxer at the start there.  LOL
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on September 13, 2021, 01:05:54 PM
Man, I sound like an anti-vaxxer at the start there.  LOL

haha, right? and I was like "let shut it all down and mask up!"  sort of
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on September 13, 2021, 01:27:45 PM
what do you think about the latest Biden mandate?

why is he not considering the people with natural immunity? why is he not considering people that had COVID already? Last I read about 25% of all [reported] covid cases are asymptomatic - this number could be much higher. Along with every one that has had COVID -  that is a huge number of the population. why is it so important to get ALL of these people vaccinated also? why isn't natural immunity taken into account?


Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on September 13, 2021, 01:32:59 PM
Like I've said before, the virus is real. This COVID shot is real as well, and it is a wonder of modern science. I think that politicians and other major power brokers around the world are using this man made pandemic to garner more power and eradicate more freedoms. They are testing how much will we allow to give because of the fear that the mass media bathes us in.

It is interesting, in his read aloud the other night, Biden said: "This is not about freedom or personal choice.  It’s about protecting yourself and those around you"
this is quite the juxtaposition to a quote from Ben Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on September 13, 2021, 01:44:22 PM
also, I don't blame anyone that wants to wear a mask or get jabbed. If that makes you feel more comfortable, by all means, go for it. Just like the flu shot, there is a certain number of the population that gets it, and others that don't. But no one mandates flu shots; so let's not make this any different.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on September 13, 2021, 05:16:55 PM
What freedom is being taken away from you?

Why do you keep comparing COVID to the flu?  It's been proven MANY times over that they are not equal.

Why do you confuse the statement from Biden with the statement from Franklin?  They are not referencing the same things.  And you know it.

Please define 'natural immunity'.  Have you done the research?  Everything I'm reading says that even if you got COVID already, those anti-bodies are not lasting as long as some people thought they would.  That's the reason everyone should get it.  And when they come out with the boosters, I'll sign up.

You act like other people are 'judging' the non-vaxxed as unintelligent or as 'sheep' but you and your crowd are doing the exact same.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on September 13, 2021, 05:23:40 PM
Please define 'natural immunity'.  Have you done the research?  Everything I'm reading says that even if you got COVID already, those anti-bodies are not lasting as long as some people thought they would.  That's the reason everyone should get it.  And when they come out with the boosters, I'll sign up.

Personally I define natural immunity from covid as having had the virus without any symptoms. and research shows that somewhere around a third of the people are asymptomatic!

https://www.sciencealert.com/over-a-third-of-covid-infections-are-truly-asymptomatic-says-massive-new-analysis
https://hartfordhealthcare.org/about-us/news-press/news-detail?articleid=29806&publicId=395

So why would you make these people take a shot that will not protect them from anything?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on September 13, 2021, 05:28:25 PM
 :popcorn: :popcorn2:
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on September 13, 2021, 05:42:15 PM
Please define 'natural immunity'.  Have you done the research?  Everything I'm reading says that even if you got COVID already, those anti-bodies are not lasting as long as some people thought they would.  That's the reason everyone should get it.  And when they come out with the boosters, I'll sign up.

Personally I define natural immunity from covid as having had the virus without any symptoms. and research shows that somewhere around a third of the people are asymptomatic!

https://www.sciencealert.com/over-a-third-of-covid-infections-are-truly-asymptomatic-says-massive-new-analysis
https://hartfordhealthcare.org/about-us/news-press/news-detail?articleid=29806&publicId=395

So why would you make these people take a shot that will not protect them from anything?


Additionally, the number could be much higher, because, naturally, many people that did not show symptoms did not know they had it. So please, explain to me why these people that are not affected by Covid19, need to take this shot? who does it benefit?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on September 13, 2021, 05:46:41 PM
Everything I'm reading says that even if you got COVID already, those anti-bodies are not lasting as long as some people thought they would.  That's the reason everyone should get it. 

really? below is a picture from the CDC website. Read it and tell me you are convinced that that there is clear empirical evidence that people who had covid, will benefit from the shot. What a fucking joke
 
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on September 13, 2021, 10:07:30 PM
Have you worked in the clinical trial industry?  Do you have any idea what it takes for them to even say that evidence is emerging?  Do you know how long it takes normally for evidence from a clinical trial to be published and how many trials it usually takes?  No.  You don't.  On the other hand, I have worked in the clinical trial industry.  For 11 years.  I've talked to countless biotechs and pharma companies and seen the insane shit they go through for even the most basic of shit.  For them to say that, there must be significant evidence.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on September 13, 2021, 10:51:31 PM
Have you worked in the clinical trial industry?  Do you have any idea what it takes for them to even say that evidence is emerging?  Do you know how long it takes normally for evidence from a clinical trial to be published and how many trials it usually takes?  No.  You don't.  On the other hand, I have worked in the clinical trial industry.  For 11 years.  I've talked to countless biotechs and pharma companies and seen the insane shit they go through for even the most basic of shit.  For them to say that, there must be significant evidence.

ok...you'd think there was more than one study supporting their claims. anyway, I answered your question about "natural immunity" - what's your take?

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on September 14, 2021, 12:20:29 AM
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/hybrid-immunity-people-covid-still-get-vaccinated-rcna1974

You should still get it.  Just because you might be asymptomatic doesn't mean you won't have long term health effects or that you are guaranteed immunity from the mutations of COVID.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on September 14, 2021, 01:08:48 AM
Just because you might be asymptomatic doesn't mean you won't have long term health effects or that you are guaranteed immunity from the mutations of COVID.

ah, same like the vaccinated people then.  :dblthumb2:
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on September 14, 2021, 01:19:10 AM
Some covid mandates have included "proof of previous infection and recovery" as one option to avoid it. Despite the fact that previous infection is likely less protective than the mRNA vaccines, I don't think I mind if they included that caveat in future mandates.

The goal is to stop it from spreading, and some natural immunity from previous infection will help.

It's obvious many people don't have enough immunity, though, because another 1700 people were reported dead from COVID today in the U.S. So in my opinion requiring a vaccine or weekly testing during a pandemic that is still killing like it's 9/11 every two days is a small price to pay. (And of course the idea that it's any kind of tyranny is asinine.)
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on September 15, 2021, 05:54:03 PM
on the topic of natural immunity. Looks like the jury is still out - I do wish they spent more time exploring it

https://youtu.be/nJ-SeOkvQQQ?t=672

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on September 16, 2021, 01:50:31 AM
I do wish they spent more time exploring it

Yeah, the jury is out, but it's really a low priority for study. What would that tell us? There are several possibilities:

* Natural immunity is much better than vaccines: If this were the case we still wouldn't tell people to get infected on purpose given that it has killed millions. This will only "help" by giving cover to previously infected people who don't want the vaccine.

* Natural immunity and vaccines are similarly effective: In this case, the recommendation would still be to get vaccinated, and again the benefit would be to allow previously infected folks a reason to skip the vaccine if they preferred without significant harm to themselves or their community.

* Vaccines are much better than natural immunity: This would possibly help convince some people who were previously infected to get the vaccines for better protection, so that's a reasonable public health goal. But not a huge one given that the vaccines are so safe and easy that people should be getting them regardless of the above info.


So to sum up, it's a worthwhile area of investigation but not particularly critical. I'd rather spend time figuring out if lower doses are as effective (so more people can get vaccinated around the world) or when booster shots are most effective. They should also be studying giving an mRNA booster to the Johnson & Johnson (or AstraZeneca) people as their protection is more limited than those of us who got the Moderna or Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Betazep on September 16, 2021, 08:30:04 AM
You should not get the vaccine Jake.  (and you are not going to anyway... so arguing the point is worthless)  Your body... your life.  As to the argument that it affects other people if you do not get the vaccine - should you get covid and spread it around... well it seems like it is spreading around just fine - even in vaccinated people.  People will harp on, "It is because not enough people are vaccinated", but at the same time there has been some serious questioning on whether or not herd immunity is even possible (anymore - and maybe it never was, now if there was a vaccine that blocked transmission, then my opinion would shift). 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00728-2

I got the vaccine for me... not for all of you.  That's the reality.  It is not that I do not love you guys, but if I did have serious concerns for me... I wouldn't have gotten it either.  (but as I said earlier... I have been injected with everything - que sera)
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on September 16, 2021, 01:26:49 PM
I got the vaccine for me... not for all of you.  That's the reality.  It is not that I do not love you guys, but if I did have serious concerns for me... I wouldn't have gotten it either.
Interesting comment.  Are you saying if you thought the virus would do something to you, you wouldn't have gotten it?  Or is there a typo and you're saying you got it only because you're in a higher risk category?

Of course we all got it to protect ourselves.  But that's not the ONLY reason you should be getting it, IMO. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Betazep on September 16, 2021, 02:11:15 PM
A typo - misunderstanding.  I got it because I didn't want to die.  Less than I thought I was protecting others.  And certainly not out of some greater-sense-of-community. 

But if I had serious concerns about anything related to safety, I wouldn't have gotten it.

I like science, tho.  And I got to see many risk groups get it before me.  The sample size for human trials was huge before it got to me - haha.

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on September 16, 2021, 04:33:54 PM
Got it.  Thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on September 16, 2021, 11:56:34 PM
More information on the Israeli natural immunity study referenced in the CNN video from my previous post

https://youtu.be/_vxe9pJRQcs
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Betazep on September 17, 2021, 07:00:38 AM
Interesting.  I can see a couple potential flaws around behaviors and randomization.  It doesn't track whether or not the vaccinated group behaved differently... and the sets are fixed.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Betazep on September 17, 2021, 07:01:31 AM
Oh I guess I should have waited to post.  He just mentioned that - heh.  Great review.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on September 17, 2021, 07:19:58 AM
Oh I guess I should have waited to post.  He just mentioned that - heh.  Great review.

I think that was one of the best videos I've seen in a while. Just facts presented in an unbiased way. Refreshing
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on September 17, 2021, 11:30:34 PM
Did he say 8 hospitalized and 0 deaths out of 16,000? Nice! And all you need to get that level of protection is a super safe vaccine? Sign me up!

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on October 27, 2021, 06:13:52 PM
I'm in a pickle - my company, being a federal contractor, is required to have all employees fully vaccinated by the signing of the new contract - which is mid January. This makes absolutely no sense, since no one in my company has ever been in direct contact with a federal employee - ALL of our work is remote.

Our CEO struggled with the decision, and waited as long as possible, but since the federal contracts (marines, navy, whitehouse) represent a rather significant portion of our hospitality business, he decided that we will follow the mandate.

And that fucking sucks.

I have some decisions to make...
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on October 27, 2021, 06:30:40 PM
Um, sounds like get the shot. You've waited long enough.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on October 27, 2021, 10:06:13 PM
Still unclear on why it's a big deal for you to get it.  You act like it will destroy you.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on October 27, 2021, 10:17:20 PM
Still unclear on why it's a big deal for you to get it.  You act like it will destroy you.

I don't like to be told to do something to my body that is not proven to be as effective or more effective than having natural immunity. I don't like that this is not even an option - I would like the idea of getting a test every x num ber of months to show that I have antibodies instead of taking a vaccine.

and when does it stop - in order to renew our contract for 2022 the whole company has to be vaccinated, and what is next? will we all have to get annual busters to keep the contract because the government says we do? to me, this just opens the door to more oppressive demands.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on October 27, 2021, 11:07:32 PM
I think you're going to have to suck it up and take this one.

Despite what the conspiracy people say, this isn't some big plot by the government. It was a shitty situation that under any normal circumstances you wouldn't have needed to be told to get a vaccine when it became available and you would have just gone and gotten it.

You can still chose not get vaccinated. That's still a freedom you have, but with any choice there are outcomes and unfortunately for you in this case, the outcome is find another job.

I don't know whose proof you need but your natural immunity, what that may be, will likely wear off and probably isn't as great as you think. You survived, good on you, but hundreds of thousands didn't. The FDA cleared the vaccine, so other than your ego, I'd say if your job is important to you, get the shot and fight the political battle another time.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on October 27, 2021, 11:27:29 PM
Still unclear on why it's a big deal for you to get it.  You act like it will destroy you.

I don't like to be told to do something to my body that is not proven to be as effective or more effective than having natural immunity.

Well, thankfully that isn't the case here (https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html).
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on October 28, 2021, 01:14:43 AM
Still unclear on why it's a big deal for you to get it.  You act like it will destroy you.

I don't like to be told to do something to my body that is not proven to be as effective or more effective than having natural immunity.

Well, thankfully that isn't the case here (https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html).

well, there are several studies that show otherwise, why are those not talked about on the CDC website?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on October 28, 2021, 01:16:47 AM
I think you're going to have to suck it up and take this one.

you're right, I probably will - but before I do I will explore all my options. One would be to become an independent contractor for my company. I'd lose out on the 401K match, and the ESOP profit sharing, but other than that, nothing else would change
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on October 28, 2021, 02:01:33 AM
I vaguely remember that the mandate was a test weekly mandate with exceptions if you're vaccinated. Is testing weekly an option for you?

Regarding vaccine vs. natural immunity, it's clear that vaccine + natural immunity is better than natural immunity by itself, so for this question it's clear taking the vaccine can only improve your protection against the virus. And it's been shown to be extremely safe, so side effects won't hurt you either.

So really it seems the only reason not to take it is to fight against people telling you what to do.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on October 28, 2021, 08:43:43 AM
I vaguely remember that the mandate was a test weekly mandate with exceptions if you're vaccinated. Is testing weekly an option for you?

this is an option for the public sector, but not an option if you're a federal worker or a contractor for the federal government - unfortunately.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on November 14, 2021, 08:45:46 PM
https://youtu.be/1uh-ZGDx0P4

Hans, what do you think about this guy?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on November 15, 2021, 01:32:07 AM
I'm not a fan of his. I have a couple friends that know him pretty well (personally) and they've posted stuff of his before but as with most politicians, it's largely things taken out of context and misleading logic.

I asked one of my friends about the guy a while back from one of his videos (he had shared on FB) that was incredibly lacking in any actual facts and instead just a lot of "what ifs" and "you can draw your own conclusion" kind of stuff and his response was a classic response in unprovable logic. I just shook my head.

I'm not a fan of letting people come to their own conclusion on these kinds of videos and it's way too easy to snip clips like he's doing. I see it as a lack or moral character on his part. I expect better.

There's a decent chance though that Walz gets bumped next election, I'm just hoping it's not by this guy.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on November 15, 2021, 07:44:50 AM
I'm pretty sure at least one of those clips was regarding women's rights or abortion, not the vaccination status. LOL  I don't trust people that take 3 seconds of someone's words and try and use that to bolster something else.  And outside of certain medical staff and working with a federal agency, the federal government hasn't issued a mandate to the general public.  I know some local government has also issued mandates too. 

But have you stopped to ask yourself why?  Why is X issuing a mandate?  Is it because the virus thrives in unvaccinated populations?  Is it because the vaccine is highly effective?  Is it because people don't give a shit about anyone but themselves?  For the vaccine to work, enough people have to get it.  Not enough people are getting it so the virus lives on and mutates and so on.  This cycle isn't going to end.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on November 15, 2021, 12:19:27 PM
Right before the Holidays....hmmmmmm

:rofl:

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Betazep on November 19, 2021, 09:15:04 AM
Choices are an interesting thing...
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on November 24, 2021, 01:39:35 PM
My religious exception was approved today! Feeling very thankful :) happy Thanksgiving
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on November 24, 2021, 02:09:47 PM
My religious exception was approved today! Feeling very thankful :) happy Thanksgiving

You're religious?

What exception do you use?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on November 24, 2021, 02:11:32 PM
I suppose even asking that is a hippa (sic) violation. /s
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on November 24, 2021, 02:37:27 PM
My exception is based mainly on the doctrine of liberty of conscience
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on November 25, 2021, 01:11:49 AM
My exception is based mainly on the doctrine of liberty of conscience
Wow.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on November 29, 2021, 09:37:29 AM
My exception is based mainly on the doctrine of liberty of conscience
Wow.

?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on November 29, 2021, 09:39:14 AM
Sorry, is that a thing?  It sounded like some sort of name made up by some sort of 'freedom' group.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on November 29, 2021, 12:04:27 PM
Sorry, is that a thing?  It sounded like some sort of name made up by some sort of 'freedom' group.

it sure is a thing - it could mean multiple things, however. If you're interested, here is a short overview

https://genevapush.com/blogs/xian_reflections/liberty-of-conscience-means-slightly-different-things-in-the-bible-and-in-p/

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on November 29, 2021, 02:29:33 PM
:)
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on December 15, 2021, 03:07:01 PM
Finally got a booster here. Hopefully you all have or will, too. Seems likely Omicron doesn't pose much extra danger other than transmissibilty but we're still averaging 1000 people dying per day in the U.S. so there are still plenty of vulnerable people left meaning extra transmissibility means more danger by itself.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on December 15, 2021, 10:50:54 PM
I haven't been 'eligible' yet according to the Cleveland Clinic.  I might try to find it another way if that doesn't change soon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on December 16, 2021, 09:39:59 AM
I just got mine scheduled for the end of the month. My wife was up with the storms last night and saw there were spots.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on December 16, 2021, 06:47:58 PM
I haven't been 'eligible' yet according to the Cleveland Clinic.  I might try to find it another way if that doesn't change soon.

That's a little odd I thought they reduced the eligibility requirements a while back but maybe there are stricter requirements in places with reduced capacity? We were lucky to have quite a few appointments available and were able to pick a Friday afternoon in case there were strong side effects (there really weren't for us).
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on December 16, 2021, 10:13:56 PM
Yeah, something weird is going on.  The Clinic now says we can sign up but my wife said we can't get appointments until April.  But apparently I can walk into Walgreens in 2 weeks and have it done.  WTF.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on December 16, 2021, 11:36:29 PM
We got ours at Safeway and CVS had openings, too. I don't even try our local clinic anymore, I wouldn't be surprised if they had fewer appointments.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on December 20, 2021, 09:55:13 AM
I got boosted at my Walgreens. It was way easier to schedule that there than at a dr office
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on December 21, 2021, 11:37:42 PM
Mine is next Wed.  Could not agree more with the scheduling bit.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on December 22, 2021, 12:19:17 AM
5 year olds will need to carry covid papers with them in Chicago. This is getting insane

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-to-require-vaccine-proof-for-indoor-spaces-like-restaurants-bars-gyms/2712739/
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on December 22, 2021, 04:41:23 AM
We went to San Francisco this past weekend. They require vaccination for eating indoors. We just showed a pic from our phone or our pediatrician practice’s health app with the details and we had no issues doing what we want to do. Super easy.

I’m not necessarily in favor of all mandates but it does make some sense for eating indoors, especially with omicron here.

I don’t usually use words like “insane” when I’m being serious but I think 1000 people dying of COVID a day nearly a year after we had such successful vaccines come out is insane. Limiting indoor dining to those least likely to spread the virus is a mild inconvenience.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on December 22, 2021, 04:46:05 AM
Also… remember to take a picture of your vaccine card on your phone. We forgot for one of our kids and also forgot to bring the vaccine cards so we were nervous for a minute that we might not be able to eat in. But luckily the aforementioned doctor’s app had the info easily accessible.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on January 10, 2022, 01:33:21 PM
It has been fairly quiet on the forum, I hope every body is doing OK. Looks like Omicron is sweeping the nation - at this point most people I know have had Covid, and most got it in the past month and a half.

how are you guys doing?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on January 10, 2022, 01:34:58 PM
I had another antibody test done a few weeks ago - a little over a year after being sick with Covid. I have about the same number of antibodies per unit as people right after the first shot.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on January 11, 2022, 12:01:28 AM
Somehow my family has still managed to avoid it.  As have both my parents and my in-laws.  But there's a ton of people in the past month that I work with that have had it.  I hope you all are safe too.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on January 11, 2022, 12:59:06 PM
Got my booster a little over a week ago. My wife came down with something (after recently being boosted as well) and it took her out for a few days. She still worked remotely, but she felt terrible and I had to run and try to find soup  and Gatorade, etc. Luckily I didn't manage to catch it or at least didn't become symptomatic. She still feels a bit tired and I'm guessing she probably got the Omi.

I'm really hoping that with the Omi tearing through and what seems to be like less severe symptoms for most that we might be on the endemic side of things soon with a reduced dangerous strain going forward.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on January 11, 2022, 02:27:51 PM
That's what I'm reading from all the experts.  You might get COVID 10 years from now but it will just be another strain of the flu at that point.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on January 12, 2022, 01:02:09 PM
My youngest daughter just tested positive. We had a family event over the weekend and the next day one of the kids we visited had a sore throat and tested positive. We couldn't find any tests and used our last ones before going to the family gathering but luckily my wife's school nurse had some to give us so we checked this morning.

My wife was feeling rundown as well so she stayed home. She ended up testing negative but for now we're keeping her home as long as she has symptoms in case it was a false negative.

Since I don't go out I don't see a reason to waste a test on myself, especially since I'm symptom free at the moment. Biggest question is whether my older daughter and I get it as she doesn't want to miss school and has a volleyball tournament soon.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on January 12, 2022, 01:05:15 PM
That's what I'm reading from all the experts.  You might get COVID 10 years from now but it will just be another strain of the flu at that point.

I'd say it's just another strain of the flu for kids and the fully vaccinated right now.

Other than the hassle and my wife having to have a substitute teach her class I'm not pressed about it. Since we are vaccinated and my wife and I are fully boosted the chances of bad outcomes are super low.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on January 13, 2022, 12:39:07 AM
Yeah, but I've still heard of breakthrough cases that are rough.  My boss's boss got it over the holidays and he was super miserable and I'm pretty sure he's even had his booster.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on January 13, 2022, 01:26:52 PM
Yeah, but I've still heard of breakthrough cases that are rough.  My boss's boss got it over the holidays and he was super miserable and I'm pretty sure he's even had his booster.

I mean, I've heard of flu cases that are rough, too. :dunno:
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on January 16, 2022, 01:05:19 PM
https://youtu.be/D70kZDLGr4Q

Haha
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on January 16, 2022, 01:43:16 PM
I made it 1 min in and couldn't keep watching. So I don't know what it actually tries to mock.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: jkim on January 20, 2022, 06:39:06 PM
It finally got us :(

We were notified that M was exposed by another baby who was in class the entire week last Thursday. We didn't attempt to try to isolate anyone since the baby was the exposure point. She promptly started a runny nose and small cough the next day and has had the same and been generally more clingy and screamy since then. My husband and I started to have a sore throat and cough Saturday. I also had a LOT of chills for a couple days and lost my sense of taste Monday. C has had absolutely no symptoms besides one day's worth of a runny nose but ended up testing positive on Monday when they went for their PCRs.

I have absolutely no regrets being vaccinated/boosted because I really think I would still be the worst of it now if I hadn't. This was miserable and I have no idea when taste is going to return.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on January 20, 2022, 08:49:09 PM
Sorry to hear that, Jen. I hope everyone gets healthy fast!

It was at least a month for my wife and I to get our senses back fully. Very weird experience.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on January 20, 2022, 09:19:18 PM
From our family "superspreader" event three different households ended up with positive tests. 5/6 kids (including patient 0) and 3 of 7 adults who were at the get-together tested positive or had obvious symptoms. Plus another adult who didn't attend but lives in the house with one of the families got it later.

I found it interesting that the only adults that got it were the father of patient 0 and three people who appeared to contract it from one of the children they lived with later.

Up to now in my household only my youngest tested positive. My oldest and I tested negative and never had any real symptoms so we went to the volleyball tournament. My wife tested negative by PCR and rapid test multiple times so she went back to teaching. So we got pretty lucky, possibly because when we first found out we all kind of isolated and wore KN95s around each other since we didn't know who might have been infected at that time.

This was miserable and I have no idea when taste is going to return.

:( Being sick sucks but it does sounds like your family got through it ok overall. Hopefully your taste comes back quick.


I heard one estimate that up to 40% of the U.S. will catch it this winter because of Omicron.  :eek:

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on January 20, 2022, 11:40:58 PM
A ton of people I know have gotten it recently so I think the 40% number is spot on.  I took a risk and went to a conference for work last week.  Somehow none of us that went got it.  It was a reduced number of tickets sold and people were generally spread out but it obviously could have turned into something big especially since a lot of people stayed at the conference for multiple days (I live close by so I came home each night).

Jen, I hope your family recovers quickly.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on January 21, 2022, 09:58:31 AM
That sucks Jen. I hope you feel better and get your taste back quick. One person I know took them 6mo. Eek. Most seem to be about a month.

So far I've come out OK of this. I got both shots and the booster, but I'm pretty sure my secret weapon is the barrel proof bourbon I drink, and secondarily the extreme hot sauces. Ain't nothing surviving in those conditions.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on January 21, 2022, 12:12:19 PM
Ha - one of the guys I work with that was not vaccinated had both him and his wife taking shots of bourbon when they got it.  But then again he also took the horse tranquilizer - which I find hilarious considering I think one of his arguments for not taking the vaccine was regarding 'what was in it'. 
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on February 03, 2022, 06:29:56 PM
Great news!
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/592457-the-cdc-is-finally-recognizing-natural-immunity-legislators-should-follow

about fucking time!
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: hans on February 03, 2022, 08:20:23 PM
Oh sure, now you listen to cdc.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: micah on February 05, 2022, 10:44:10 AM
Oh sure, now you listen to cdc.
:lol:

A couple weeks ago my 9-year-old woke up and her stomach didn't feel well so I let her stay home from school. She felt better later in the day but we went and got her tested because I figured the school might ask since she missed a day (they didn't.)  The next day I sent her to school but right before pickup I got the text saying her results were positive. She was asymptomatic for the entirety of the required 5-day quarantine.  Her sister had to stay home from school as well because of their 'close contact.'  The following week, Harper went back to school. In order to send her zero-symptom sister back she needed to get tested. So I took her on a weekend to get tested but come Monday the results weren't ready.  I gave her a home rapid test and it was negative and I sent her to school. 2-Days later her results came back positive  :rolleyes:  Zero symptoms for either of them.  The rest of us in the house have all taken several rapid tests and all of them negative.  Go figure.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on February 05, 2022, 04:36:00 PM
Speaking of school... we just got 2 letters from the school about the number of hours my daughter has missed.  I am tempted to just throw them in the trash.  A lot of them are missed for ortho appointments (just a few hours) or other doctor's appointments but some of them she either wasn't feeling well (tested negative) or she got a letter saying she was in close contact and we kept her home if she felt any remote symptoms.  I assume the schools/state are going to be lenient with it this year.  I mean they tell us to keep them home if there are any symptoms so what are we supposed to do?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on February 06, 2022, 01:47:06 AM
Great news!
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/592457-the-cdc-is-finally-recognizing-natural-immunity-legislators-should-follow

about fucking time!

So have you guys even heard about this study other than from my post? I googled to see what mass media is saying about it, and it is hard to find anything from the likes of nbc, CNN,NY times, etc. Wonder why that is? Or maybe it's just "my" search results  ;)

I found one article fromm CNN. Notice how different it is from the one from the hill

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/19/health/covid-vaccine-infection-protection-cdc-study/index.html
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on February 06, 2022, 01:49:46 AM
I challenge you guys to listen to the controversial JRE episode with Dr. Malone - I am very curious to see your take on what is discussed there.  In turn, I would gladly listen to a long format video with an opposing view point you would suggest.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3SCsueX2bZdbEzRtKOCEyT?si=Vu1TVqMHTEifPZ7Xb2YXIQ&utm_source=copy-link
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on February 06, 2022, 02:22:40 AM
Why are we still not actively treating early covid infection with these inexpensive drugs? Why are we ostricizing people that do and why are we taking away licenses from doctors who use these treatments? Why are we making it difficult to get these drugs? Why haven't we been. Doing this all along? How many people could have been saved if these early treatments were used from the beginning?

https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/08000/ivermectin_for_prevention_and_treatment_of.7.aspx

Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Rob on February 06, 2022, 05:47:50 AM
https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/08/19/bmjebm-2021-111791


Evidence on the efficacy of ivermectin for COVID-19: another story of apples and oranges

In our Cochrane Review,3 we assessed the identical set of trials. However, only 4 of the 15 trials included in Bryant’s meta-analysis on mortality met our predefined eligibility criteria, and our conclusion, incorporating careful grading of the certainty of evidence, reveals a less rosy picture. The bottom line demonstrates an important uncertainty whether ivermectin compared with placebo or standard of care reduces or increases mortality in moderately ill hospitalised patients (RR 0.60, 95% CI 0.14 to 2.51; two studies) and mildly ill outpatients (RR 0.33, 95% CI 0.01 to 8.05; two studies), due to serious risk of bias and imprecision. How do the different assessments come about? The answer lies partly in the baseline data of included studies. Bryant et al pooled heterogeneous patient populations, interventions, comparators and outcomes. In other words, they compare apples and oranges, serving a large bowl of a colourful fruit salad. Usually, pooling of heterogeneous studies increases imprecision of effects in meta-analyses. Why does this not apply to ivermectin? Its alleged effect is driven by studies where the effect size is extremely positive, which has influenced the conclusions in other reviews. One of these studies with a huge effect has now been retracted over ethical concern.4
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Mike on February 06, 2022, 08:56:44 AM
I assume the schools/state are going to be lenient with it this year.  I mean they tell us to keep them home if there are any symptoms so what are we supposed to do?
Gotta get the attendance dollars!  Not sure how it is in your state but here in CA schools get paid based off of the average daily attendance (ADA) reported at two reporting points.  When COVID first took off our state legislature passed some bills changing it for that (2019/20) but it wasn't done for 2020/21 or 2021/22.

Are you all doing hybrid?  Perhaps they expected the kids to attend virtually while being kept home.  /shrug
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on February 06, 2022, 09:09:07 AM
Rob, next time you're making a pen, listen to that episode.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on February 06, 2022, 10:34:05 AM
https://youtu.be/D3HpbC9ExjY

I wanted to sat better late then never to ask those questions, but fuck, where were these questions 2 years ago. And now they should go back and parse the death data and I think that the final numbers will shock us with how deceptive this whole operation was
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Rob on February 06, 2022, 01:52:26 PM
Sorry Jake, I don't need to waste my time listening to an anti-vax nutcase like Malone.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Jake on February 06, 2022, 02:12:32 PM
Sorry Jake, I don't need to waste my time listening to an anti-vax nutcase like Malone.

I will not try to convince you, but just my feeling from that interview is that he is not so much anti Vax as he wants people to know the real data and be informed about all aspects of the vaccine so that they can make a better decision in regards to taking it....especially for their kids
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Rob on February 06, 2022, 02:21:58 PM
Glad you're not going to try to convince me. You won't.

In my opinion Malone should be arrested and jailed. His bullshit kills people.

Fucking Invermectin and Hydroxychloroquine nonsense.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: ober on February 06, 2022, 07:59:30 PM
Why are we still not actively treating early covid infection with these inexpensive drugs? Why are we ostricizing people that do and why are we taking away licenses from doctors who use these treatments? Why are we making it difficult to get these drugs? Why haven't we been. Doing this all along? How many people could have been saved if these early treatments were used from the beginning?

https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/08000/ivermectin_for_prevention_and_treatment_of.7.aspx
This is the first study to state that there is definitive benefit.  There are been numerous studies that state that the results are inconclusive and have other potential side effects that make using this drug not worth the risk.

Great news!
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/592457-the-cdc-is-finally-recognizing-natural-immunity-legislators-should-follow

about fucking time!

So have you guys even heard about this study other than from my post? I googled to see what mass media is saying about it, and it is hard to find anything from the likes of nbc, CNN,NY times, etc. Wonder why that is? Or maybe it's just "my" search results  ;)

I found one article fromm CNN. Notice how different it is from the one from the hill

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/19/health/covid-vaccine-infection-protection-cdc-study/index.html

From that article: "However, this shift coincides with a time of waning vaccine immunity in many people. The study did not factor the time from vaccination -- and potential waning immunity -- into the analysis. The study also does not capture the effect booster doses may have and was conducted before the emergence of the Omicron variant."

Surely there's no political reason for the CDC to publish the information that people like yourself would love to hear.  Right?
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: Perspective on February 07, 2022, 09:29:25 AM
Treat COVID with drugs? No way man, I don't even know what's in those drugs. :D


>>I found one article fromm CNN. Notice how different it is from the one from the hill

The article from the hill is an opinion piece.
Title: Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
Post by: charlie on February 08, 2022, 02:08:08 PM
>>I found one article fromm CNN. Notice how different it is from the one from the hill

The article from the hill is an opinion piece.

C'mon Jake, let's work on that media literacy.


I'm still on the fence about vaccine mandates, and incorporating recent infection does make sense to me (I've seen it done in some areas already). But in the end, this is all about how to work around the fact that people are just making bad decisions. Vaccines are so much safer and so much more effective than even the drugs that actually work (let alone stupid shit like ivermectin), and yet so many folks have a predisposition to distrust "the man" that when their media tells them they should do so they happily comply to the tune of hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths. It's moronic and frustrating and sad.