Topic: Herman Cain

[micah]

just curious as to which aspects of Obama you find better than Bush?  I mean, if you don't like Obama, how would you juxtapose his administration against the actions and policies of the previous administration?

[Steve]

just curious as to which aspects of Obama you find better than Bush?  I mean, if you don't like Obama, how would you juxtapose his administration against the actions and policies of the previous administration?

The country is just in a better place. I never saw jobs in MI until a few months after Obama came in. Now a lot of it may simply be time, and not any direct result of Obama, but the country is in a better place then it was with Bush.

My main issue with Obama is that it seems like many things could be much better if he would stop talking and start doing. If he would get "off the tour" and stop giving speeches every day and put that energy into change, things could really be happening.

The biggest problem is still the economy. He needs to pick up the phone, call Clinton and just say "Look, I don't know how to fix this shit, I need your help.".

Clinton kicked ass.

[Govtcheez]

Feel free what you think Obama could do that would get through Congress, Steve.

[Steve]

Feel free what you think Obama could do that would get through Congress, Steve.

Fair enough, that is a good point. I like to think that if he came across with something solid that Congress would put aside the bullshit and get behind him, but sadly your point is valid and thats really not the case. The people of this country were forward thinking enough to vote him in, but the members of Congress are still acting like children.

[charlie]

Clinton kicked ass.

Clinton wasn't all that much different from Obama.

Except Obama was able to get his health care plan to pass.

[Steve]

Clinton kicked ass.

Clinton wasn't all that much different from Obama.

Except Obama was able to get his health care plan to pass.

How so? Clinton reshaped this country after Regan. He came in after Regan and found a way to redefine and reposition the Democratic Party, and Obama should be thanking him for that. Let's look at clinton:

Economic Expansion at a record of 115 months.

More than 22 million new jobs.

Highest home ownership in the history of the US

Invested in education, increased the standards AND brought internet to what, 80% of the schools?

Expanded the college opportunities more than the GI Bill

Lowest crime rate in 20 something years. He hired something like 200,000 new police offers. Since Bush and getting worse with Obama the cops are loosing their jobs like crazy.

Got the Family Medical Act.

Lowered welfare.

He fought against teen pregnancy and set a record for lowest teen birth rate.

Lowered national debt hundreds of billions of dollars.

Lowered the federal tax burden.

I could go on all day. How many records has he set? And what did Obama do? He got a healthcare bill passed.

[Mike]

He came in after Regan and found a way to redefine and reposition the Democratic Party, and Obama should be thanking him for that. Let's look at clinton:

You do realize that Bush #1 was between Reagan and Clinton?

Here is the truth of the matter:  Clinton got lucky.  He had a Congress that would work with him, the parties were more centralist than they are now, the economy was doing good, and we weren't involved in two major conflicts (we were involved in a lot of minor conflicts that the public ignored).  Obama has a congress that really can't get things done, are steeply divided, inherited a crap economy, and involved in a bloody conflict that the public is getting tired of.  In short:  He came into a bad situation and has been able to do at least not make things worse then where it was already headed.

The president really has little power themselves.  At best they are the party leader and can get their own people to do what needs to be done.  At worse they can only approve or veto bills that come across their desk.

[Steve]

He came in after Regan and found a way to redefine and reposition the Democratic Party, and Obama should be thanking him for that. Let's look at clinton:

You do realize that Bush #1 was between Reagan and Clinton?

Here is the truth of the matter:  Clinton got lucky.  He had a Congress that would work with him, the parties were more centralist than they are now, the economy was doing good, and we weren't involved in two major conflicts (we were involved in a lot of minor conflicts that the public ignored).  Obama has a congress that really can't get things done, are steeply divided, inherited a crap economy, and involved in a bloody conflict that the public is getting tired of.  In short:  He came into a bad situation and has been able to do at least not make things worse then where it was already headed.

The president really has little power themselves.  At best they are the party leader and can get their own people to do what needs to be done.  At worse they can only approve or veto bills that come across their desk.

Yes, but Bush #1 didn't do a whole lot of good, he only made things worse imo.

I concede that Obama has it hard with congress, but i really think he could have found a way around that. Clinton is still very influential, and had Obama asked and been doing the right things I think he would have got behind him big time.

[micah]

>I could go on all day.

or until you run out of websites that list his accomplishments verbatim.
http://clinton5.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/eightyears-01.html

here's a good read: http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/infocus/bushrecord/documents/appendix_acc_for_web.pdf

[Steve]

Like i'm going to recall it all off my head. And it wasn't verbatim, because i actually didn't find that first one. I skimmed a few, didn;t have the exact numbers.

[Govtcheez]

> Yes, but Bush #1 didn't do a whole lot of good, he only made things worse imo.

like what

[charlie]

Steve... most of your list is about circumstances. You can't just judge a President on the state of the country while he is in office. For the same reason, you can't really say that Obama's doing good just because there are more jobs in Michigan.

Obama, like Clinton, was relatively centrist, compromised on a lot of things to work with Republicans in Congress, avoided starting ground wars and instead preferred air strikes and junk, lowered the federal tax burden, etc.

[Govtcheez]

> brought internet to what, 80% of the schools?

This is my favorite Clinton accomplishment.  It's like there wasn't Internet in the schools before him just because HW Bush and Reagan were jerks

[charlie]

Well Bush II was around during the age of the internet, how many schools did he bring internet to? I'll bet it's no more than 20%.

[Govtcheez]

W brought internet to 100% of the schools he brought it to, you pinko