Topic: new health care bill

[Jake]

so does anyone here have a grasp on this so called health care reform bill? How will it effect us? and by us I mean middle class folk? Or does it help out the lower class, does not effect the upper class, and fuck the middle class?

Insurance premiums are a total drag. My wife has great benefits at work, and the birth of our son out of pocket cost us a bit over $2K (from the day she got pregnant to birth). The only reason she is working right now is to keep that insurance to cover the second pregnancy which we are planning pretty soon. We want to have a third child, but I don't know how we will afford good health care on my salary alone. This is completely ludicrous.

What do you guys think?

[micah]

I don't have a clue whats in it but I guarantee it would do shit to help me in the next 6 months when I could really use it.

I think I mentioned in another thread that my organization up and dropped our traditional HMO/PPO plans 2 weeks ago and forced us into a Health Reimbursement Account (HRA) -- ordinarily, I think HRA and HSAs are a great option and if everyone used them it would help solve a lot of problems... unfortunately, the timing for my pregnant wife and I couldn't be worse!  we're all-but fucked.

In addition to the $230/mo premium we'll now have to pay a $2,000 deductible BEFORE the insurance pays for anything else... which means every ultrasound, doctor appointment and prescription we have for the next few months we're supposed to pay for 100% out of pocket until we hit $2k.

Save us Obama!

I don't have $2,000 lying around so we'll see how well this works out.

[Govtcheez]

Considering that the actual bill hasn't been passed yet, you can't really comment on it because no one knows what'll actually be in the bill.

[micah]

...no one knows what'll actually be in the bill.

good point....

"That's what I will do in bringing all parties together, not negotiating behind closed doors, but bringing all parties together, and broadcasting those negotiations on C-SPAN so that the American people can see what the choices are," Mr. Obama said during his Jan. 31, 2008 debate with Clinton. "Because part of what we have to do is enlist the American people in this process.

so much for that 

[Govtcheez]

>good point....
> so much for that 

You missed my point.  No one knows what'll be in the final bill because the Senate and House bills aren't the same bill.

On the quote, what did you expect Obama to do?  Set up webcams in every congressional meeting room?

[Mike]

On the quote, what did you expect Obama to do?  Set up webcams in every congressional meeting room?

That would be kinda cool....

[jkim]

No one knows what'll be in the final bill because the Senate and House bills aren't the same bill.

What he said.  Both the NY Times and the Boston Globe have pretty simple explanations outlining the differences. I was going to write that I didn't know if they were updated for the Senate's bill, but the Times says it was last updated 12/23.

[charlie]

There's enough information about the bills available to discuss it even though they haven't been merged, though. It sounds like it will be much closer to the Senate's than the House's, since the House should be able to pass anything that the Senate passes.

axon, my impression is that it won't help you much. You have health care already through an employer. The costs for premiums won't be going down, and with these bills it's unlikely that rise in cost will slow down much either. Unless you get sick with a serious disease it shouldn't really affect you.

Now, if your wife decides to leave her job and you don't have adequate health insurance through your job for the family, then this bill might affect you. It would probably make it easier for you to find insurance on your own, and could make it cheaper with subsidies for you depending on your income (which are available for families with up to almost $90,000 in yearly earnings).

And of course, if you or your wife stops your insurance, then gets sick, you'll be able to get insurance again without being denied for the pre-existing condition. Or if you get sick while you have insurance, the insurance company will no longer be able to drop you.

But mostly this bill helps the lower-middle class folks that don't have insurance, and those with pre-existing conditions that are getting denied.

Oh, and the public option was one attempt to really slow the rising costs which would affect everybody, but I highly doubt that it will be in the final bill. There are other things the Senate has that are similar but probably won't help "us" (the middle and upper-middle class) as much.

[charlie]

I don't have a clue whats in it but I guarantee it would do shit to help me in the next 6 months when I could really use it.

I think I mentioned in another thread that my organization up and dropped our traditional HMO/PPO plans 2 weeks ago and forced us into a Health Reimbursement Account (HRA) -- ordinarily, I think HRA and HSAs are a great option and if everyone used them it would help solve a lot of problems... unfortunately, the timing for my pregnant wife and I couldn't be worse!  we're all-but fucked.

In addition to the $230/mo premium we'll now have to pay a $2,000 deductible BEFORE the insurance pays for anything else... which means every ultrasound, doctor appointment and prescription we have for the next few months we're supposed to pay for 100% out of pocket until we hit $2k.

Save us Obama!

I don't have $2,000 lying around so we'll see how well this works out.

Our company offered an HMO and a PPO, with the PPO requiring more expensive contributions from the employees. Since the HMO isn't available in the area where our office is located, the company would pay the difference, we got the PPO for the HMO price. So this year they decided not to do that any more, and instead offer a high deductible plan like the one you're talking about for the price of the HMO.

So all of us in our office took a look and we all decided that the PPO with the (much) higher contributions was still better overall than the high-deductible plan. Doh! That means nearly $1500 more per year in contributions to keep the same plan we've had. (Although we are switching insurance companies because 2009's company raised premiums 25%, so maybe that's not too bad.)

Anyhoo, the only person in the office that was close to using the high-deductible plan was the guy whose wife is pregnant. Turns out that from the taxes you save using the HRA and the fact that everything is paid for after the $2000 deductible (plus the $1500 in lower contributions for us) that it would just about come out even depending on how often the dad or first kid used it. As axon said, having a kid will cost $2K or more (it did for both of ours) when you have insurance anyway, so unless you don't use the doctor at all I'd say that you might be a prime candidate for benefiting from the plan.

Of course, you still have to pay for the stuff at the time, and if you live paycheck to paycheck that might be hard. But if they take money out of your paycheck for the HRA that should help, no?

By the way, I, too, thought the idea of these types of plans sounded really good, but I have to admit that when not a single person in my office thought it was a better choice it made me wonder. I mean, if nobody wants to use that type of plan, is it really a good idea?

[JaWiB]

And of course, if you or your wife stops your insurance, then gets sick, you'll be able to get insurance again without being denied for the pre-existing condition. Or if you get sick while you have insurance, the insurance company will no longer be able to drop you.

This makes no sense to me. What's stopping people from waiting until they get sick to buy insurance?

[webwhy]

<rant>
This compromise is ultimately going to be very bad for the country.  While I feel strongly that everyone should have access to coverage agree denials for preexisting conditions are wrong, we're going to get f*cked by compromise in this case.

This is a mandate that 94% (referring to Senate Version.  higher in the house version) of the country have insurance that is provided by private insurers.  While private insurers are required to provide coverage and cannot offer "higher" premiums to higher risk customers or groups, the are still allowed to recover the additional costs (taxes and fees) levied on them through this bill by raising premiums on all there customers.

There is no doubt that subsidies for families who are determined to be too poor to afford coverage will also add to the already inflated cost of coverage and care.  I certainly hope that the $90000 per year figure floats based on where the family is located in the country.  I feel like that number should be closer to $50K in my area.  While it would be difficult to raise a family of four on $90K, it's certainly possible.  I could almost promise you most of those families have a couple of LCD TV's, an XBox and PS3. 

here's another idea:  don't have babies if you can't afford to pay for them.  People need to prioritize.  Your families' health is more important than buying new $120 jeans or eating out every night.  Yet people are blown away when they're asked to shoulder $2k of the load.  You ever look at what percentage of the total cost that $2k is?  It's tiny. 

If the government cannot regulate and/or fix prices, subsidies only compound the problem.  It appears that is the case with this bill.  Wouldn't you love to run a business in which government has mandated that most citizens must buy what I sell?  That all but cripples the forces in the free market that control prices.  Major insurers stocks are trading near 52 year highs on the news of the Senate Bill.  What does that tell ya?  Investors know that this will ultimately help increase revenue for the insurance companies.

Bottom Line:  I usually lean towards the right, but I wanted reform.  I wanted the government to enter the marketplace to control costs, and I wanted to be taxed to pay for it.  I do not think my familiy's healthcare should be priced in a free market simply because it can never be a truly free market for a variety of reasons.  I think that anyone that has had a serious illness in their family would feel this way.

All this bill does is take money out of our pockets through taxes, fees, inflated premiums, and inflated care and move that money into the pockets of the insurance companies, equipment and drug companies, and healthcare providers.  It's more gas on the fire.  Where are their incentives to lower prices?
</rant>

[charlie]

And of course, if you or your wife stops your insurance, then gets sick, you'll be able to get insurance again without being denied for the pre-existing condition. Or if you get sick while you have insurance, the insurance company will no longer be able to drop you.

This makes no sense to me. What's stopping people from waiting until they get sick to buy insurance?

There will (probably) be a mandate, so that if you don't buy insurance you have to pay a fee on your taxes. Also, there are different levels of sick. If the possibilities are good health and cancer, then you're right, people would just wait until they get sick. But a lot of health issues that cost money are kind of borderline on whether they would be cheaper to pay for directly or through insurance. Plus, what if you have to go to the emergency room, you can't retroactively get insurance for that. You'd just be out the $2,000-$30,000.

[stealth]

Wow, our healthcare system is far from perfect, but what you guys have in the US sounds fucked.

[Rob]

Wow, our healthcare system is far from perfect, but what you guys have in the US sounds fucked.

1.

[Steve]

This thing is going to cost entirely too much money. Somebody needs to kill Obama