Author Topic: Theater shooting  (Read 20291 times)

Rob

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Re: Theater shooting
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2012, 02:31:43 PM »
Sorry. I'll leave it there.

Govtcheez

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Re: Theater shooting
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2012, 02:34:04 PM »
What else did you want to talk about with regards to it?  I think everyone can agree it's horrible.

Rob

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Re: Theater shooting
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2012, 02:34:49 PM »

charlie

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Re: Theater shooting
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2012, 02:40:33 PM »

Steve

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Re: Theater shooting
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2012, 03:35:02 PM »
I'd stop imagining I'm some sort of commando and get my family the heck out of there as fast as I could.  What are you going to do to cover your family with this gun that you've already committed to not shooting?  by the time the guy turns towards you the bullet's already coming.  You're not going to be able to do much at that point.

> Thats the theater I saw Spider Man at last week

Wow

+1 on both statements.


Quote
ust then two on duty police officers excited a bakery next door (lol, bakery), pulled their weapons, and shouted at the agent, not knowing who he was. The agent turned their direction and the rookie officer shot him in the head, killing him.

I haven't heard about that story, can you link me to it?>


My details were a tad off apparently, it wasn't a bank and a bakery and the suspect was fighting with the agent apparently. It's been a while since the initial story, here is the update with all the details of it. It was in NY, I forgot where it had happened at. Typed it into Google, first hit from Google news:

http://online.wsj.com/article/AP26438d7614f9442181ee39f0e54d4d16.html
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kermi3

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Re: Theater shooting
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2012, 03:44:28 PM »
Had to discuss this with campers today...a 12 year told me his dad had a gun at home and made sure that the boy knew where cause he's home alone a lot.
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Steve

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Re: Theater shooting
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2012, 03:49:26 PM »
given that the kid has been trained properly and is responsible enough I don't disagree with that.
hey ethic if you and i were both courting lily allen..... oh wait, which one of us has a relationship that lasted more than the bus ride home?

kermi3

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Re: Theater shooting
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2012, 03:52:02 PM »
Then you know nothing about 12 year olds.
govtcheez03:  i kind of look for it - i seek out stupidity and annoy it until it either gets better, gets banned, or goes away on its own

Steve

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Re: Theater shooting
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2012, 03:52:46 PM »
Then you know nothing about 12 year olds.

The average 12 year old barely has any business near a gun with supervision, but there are exceptions.
hey ethic if you and i were both courting lily allen..... oh wait, which one of us has a relationship that lasted more than the bus ride home?

kermi3

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Re: Theater shooting
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2012, 03:57:57 PM »
Dude - you just made two dirctly contradictory posts....and I've worked with more 12 year olds than I can count and I know some extremely responsible 12 year olds - some of whom I've trusted with quite a lot. - in one case even my passwords as needed...but never in a crisis situation....responsibility has nothing to do with it.
govtcheez03:  i kind of look for it - i seek out stupidity and annoy it until it either gets better, gets banned, or goes away on its own

Steve

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Re: Theater shooting
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2012, 04:28:31 PM »
It's not a contradiction. Read my original statement, my being ok with it depended on the responsibility and training of the child in question. Most children that age are not going to meet the responsibility requirement. Hell most teenagers don't. But I do not know that specific child and you did not make an indication as to your feeling about it, so I simply stated that pending those two factors I would have no issue with that situation.
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kermi3

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Re: Theater shooting
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2012, 04:38:57 PM »
For the past 14 years (8 more or less full time) I have worked with far more 12 year olds than I can count. I cannot think of one that I'd be comfortable with knowledge of the location of a handgun, ammunition, and encouragement to use them as needed.
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kermi3

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Re: Theater shooting
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2012, 05:12:26 PM »
Full body armor including helmet and kneck guard and all legally bought guns in last few months. Someone armed wouldn't have helped much and no crime until he fired a shot...
govtcheez03:  i kind of look for it - i seek out stupidity and annoy it until it either gets better, gets banned, or goes away on its own

Steve

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Re: Theater shooting
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2012, 08:59:07 PM »
Full body armor including helmet and kneck guard and all legally bought guns in last few months. Someone armed wouldn't have helped much and no crime until he fired a shot...

Body armor is only good for so many rounds, and your average body armor that number is typically 3 to 5. When a bullet strikes a vest the material inside is "pulled" to the point of impact, that is by design and is part of the reason it can stop a round. After so many impacts the effectiveness of the material is compromised and ultimately it fails. A neck guard is only good for a single shot, maybe two because there is so much less material. Also the impact to the neck from the force alone is going to hurt like crazy.

Your average round in ball point FMJ will penetrate the average vest in 3 to 5 rounds. If the bullet is a 180 grain HP that number can be as low as 2, depending on the body armor (and a lot of other factors). Also remember even to a vest, it hurts. The shooter was undoubtedly close enough to the tear gas (it dissipates) that being struck by rounds even through a vest would cause pain and increased breathing, which would increase any effect of the gas.

For the past 14 years (8 more or less full time) I have worked with far more 12 year olds than I can count. I cannot think of one that I'd be comfortable with knowledge of the location of a handgun, ammunition, and encouragement to use them as needed.

Is your experience with them limited to any specific demographic or social level? I would imagine that the comfort would come with in home experience in that specific regard. For example my dad is a NRA certified firearms instructor, prior military and career law enforcement. He would never trust me around the keys to his car or liquor cabinet, but I started shooting when I was two and at 12 years old I had access to weapons for protection. I never laid a finger on a single one without permission, and was never tempted.

Most of it is about taking the mystery and fanfare out of it.
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kermi3

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Re: Theater shooting
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2012, 09:36:10 PM »
My experience is largely with middle or high SES kids, but many down here are hunters or have families that shoot alot - including the kid I trusted the most when he was 12.  Many others I worked with in Virginia were middle low SES and hunters/farm kids....

With appropriate training, I don't have a huge problem with what you described - but you had to ask permission.  That's key...actually - no, I do have a problem with it.  12 year olds are 12.  They are basically children who sometimes have have extra shitty judgement.  I imagine using a gun in defense takes a ton of training and judgement.  Nope - can't think of one I would trust with instructions anywhere near the vicinity of "If you hear someone around when you're home alone, here is where the gun is..." 

And given the emotional roller coaster that is teenaged life (and how well they can hide their emotions at times), I also would be reticent with them knowing where the arms and ammo are without a gun lock being involved, but I can think of a few I would trust with that knowledge...but I don't see any conceivable need for them to have it, because I wouldn't trust them to use it without adult supervision/consent so I'm not sure I'd risk it (some rare exception for country kids and hunting - but that's not what we're talking here...)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 09:53:14 PM by kermi3 »
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