Author Topic: The wall (from Plan your charity)  (Read 200 times)

KnuckleBuckett

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The wall (from Plan your charity)
« on: January 31, 2019, 06:07:12 AM »
10 years ago I would say give a chunk of it to food allergy research.  But with OIT, that's become highly manageable.  I would give a lot of it to education I think.  Fuck, you give 1 million to as many schools as you can and you could prevent parents and teachers from buying basic classroom supplies for several years.  Or you fund some of the school's tech budget.  Give the kids a leg up on the world.

You could fully fund the building of at least 6 full K-8 or maybe K-12 campuses with 300 million in most districts.  I can't tell you what a difference the new school in my city has made.

Don't let him BS ya folks.  He would build the damned wall.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 12:40:06 PM by charlie »

ober

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Re: Re: Plan your charity
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2019, 08:51:39 AM »
First: Fuck Trump
Second: I would build the biggest fucking privacy fence around my new mansion - that is true.

KnuckleBuckett

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Re: Re: Plan your charity
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2019, 06:21:51 AM »
First: Fuck Trump
Second: I would build the biggest fucking privacy fence around my new mansion - that is true.

Interestingly everybody builds walls around their assets (well not me yet) but this wall debate is a thing.  I just don't care.  Whatever.  Think that solves or greatly impacts the actual issues at hand?  WRONG!  Think it helps the border patrol police the area?  Probably.  Some.  Want to do this right?  Create, fund, and enforce thoughtful, flexible, and intelligent policy that supports the needs of the US first and the source countries (not just the immigrants) as best as it reasonably can.

charlie

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Re: The wall (from Plan your charity)
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2019, 01:38:14 PM »
Create, fund, and enforce thoughtful, flexible, and intelligent policy that supports the needs of the US first and the source countries (not just the immigrants) as best as it reasonably can.

On the one hand I'm a globalist, and don't consider the needs and livelihoods of Americans to be more important than any other citizen of the world.

On the other hand, I think adversarial processes where individual actors (or in this case nations) advocate for their own self interest is a smart way to approach issues that affect multiple parties.

On the third hand, I think that the U.S. is powerful enough as a nation that we can take into consideration the effects of our policies on other countries and be willing to sacrifice some things to reach a fair and equitable solution.

In other words, I'd support policy that supports the needs of the US first and the source countries as best as it reasonable can. :thumbsup:

micah

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Re: The wall (from Plan your charity)
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2019, 06:28:35 PM »
My take is, every country has borders and rules about who can enter their country and for how long they can stay.  The whole world works that way. That's why we have passports and visas and green cards and asylum, etc.  The world is a global community but we are made up of sovereign nations.

I have zero problem with anyone wanting to come to our country to make a better life for themselves. And, I don't care about the incoming nationality of those immagrants.  That said, everyone should come through the front door.  We shouldn't allow drug and weapons trafficking or known fugitives to cross into our country.  That's why we have border crossings and customs. (again, like every other country in the world.)

At the airport, you have to go through the TSA line. There's a little valet rope that guides the line through the check point and you're not allowed to go around/over/under it.  If you do, you get tackled by the TSA guards and police.   

So, if there is a wide open area of thousands of miles allowing people to just go around the border checkpoints and its becoming a real problem, then yeah I don't see why we shouldn't have a wall. It makes sense.  I don't think its racist, I think its prudent.


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charlie

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Re: The wall (from Plan your charity)
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2019, 10:02:14 PM »
My thing with this wall is that I don't think it's becoming a real problem. Seems like this "solution" is more of a symbolic thing which of course is symbolizing the opposite of what I think this country is about.

I prefer the symbolism of the Statue of Liberty to that of a large wall.

ethic

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Re: The wall (from Plan your charity)
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2019, 02:23:34 PM »
When I was at the Mexican border I saw a giant fence and helicopters. When I was at the Canadian border, I saw trees.
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ober

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Re: The wall (from Plan your charity)
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2019, 02:27:14 PM »
That's because Canadians want nothing to do with us.  No one is trying to get in from the North so no reason to try and stop them. 

Mike

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Re: The wall (from Plan your charity)
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2019, 03:55:27 PM »
Just need some smugglers to swing around and come in from the north.

tgm

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Re: The wall (from Plan your charity)
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2019, 04:19:48 PM »
Nah, that would never happen. Just like tunnels under a wall.
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micah

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Re: The wall (from Plan your charity)
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2019, 04:29:35 PM »
I'm not sure I get the anti-wall argument that it shouldn't be done because people can go under/over/around it.  That's an obvious given.  But having a wall is still a significant mitigating deterrent.  It's like saying "I'm not going to lock my car doors because a thief will just break the window to get in anyway."

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tgm

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Re: The wall (from Plan your charity)
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2019, 07:04:09 PM »
I think mostly because it's very expensive relative to the actual prevention of things. Locking your doors is a trivial remedy, put cost to it each time and see if the analogy still stands. Or an initial cost to add locks to your car that isn't trivial and see if you want to add that "feature".
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micah

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Re: The wall (from Plan your charity)
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2019, 08:06:38 PM »
I get that point, but the wall is 0.11% of the total budget.  If you could add an alarm to your new $20,000 car for $22 wouldn't you?

Also, since when do democrats (the major opponents of the wall) care about fiscal responsibility?

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Mike

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Re: The wall (from Plan your charity)
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2019, 12:02:27 AM »
My issues with the wall:

1. It is going to be expensive to build (the $5 billion is only the beginning) and maintain (which I haven't seen anyone really talking about)
2. It doesn't actually address the real sources of illegal immigration and drug smuggling. 
3. Trump's motivations are based in racism and tribalism and not in national security.  It works because the most vocal of his supporters are racists and tribalists.
4. Trump can't fucking settle on what he is actually proposing

#3 is a big enough reason - imo - to oppose the wall.  Why we do things matters.

Going back to the house analogy:  If you are welcoming people into your house and they overstay their welcome - and you aren't keeping track of them - is building a fence addressing the problem?  Sure, maybe you do need a fence but maybe first you should focus on how to keep people from overstaying.

charlie

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Re: The wall (from Plan your charity)
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2019, 12:42:45 AM »
I think I'm for open (but regulated/documented) borders.

I can't think of a reason not to allow all non-felon/non-terrorist people from immigrating to the U.S. I mean, what's the reason?