Author Topic: Coronavirus COVID-19  (Read 12737 times)

hans

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #360 on: December 17, 2020, 01:52:25 PM »
Hey Jake, how's your sense of smell and taste doing? You said you were 50% a little bit ago and I'm wondering how that's measured.
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Jake

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #361 on: December 17, 2020, 03:57:08 PM »
Hey Jake, how's your sense of smell and taste doing? You said you were 50% a little bit ago and I'm wondering how that's measured.

The measurement is not scientific :p but both senses are back fully for a little over a week now
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Jake

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #362 on: December 18, 2020, 03:51:54 PM »
Quote
It is not up to ME, how YOU handle things that affect YOUR PERSONAL life.  It's none of my business how you decide things like that.  That's why it's called 'pro-CHOICE

So with that said, the vaccine should also be a choice and not a requirement - my body my choice - right?
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hans

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #363 on: December 18, 2020, 06:49:42 PM »
But the issue is if you're an asymptomatic carrier, it's no longer just your body and your choice. You are now potentially putting other people at risk for your choice. Despite the belief of many we don't have unlimited freedoms. We give up some for the better interest of society as a whole. And while I used to be further on the right and believe people can make the decisions own their own, I think this pandemic has clearly shown that people make bad decisions.

It amazes me that I'm even on this side of things. I guess I've changed as I've gotten older and seen that society is irresponsible as a whole.
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hans

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #364 on: December 18, 2020, 06:52:32 PM »
And while you (I assume) and others might be responsible and wear masks in public to prevent spreading disease we've unfortunately seen too many people act horribly and basically ruin it for everyone I think.
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charlie

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #365 on: December 19, 2020, 03:14:01 PM »
One important aspect of libertarianism is that it's not that you should have the freedom or liberty to do whatever you want. It's that you should have the freedom to do as you want as long as you don't infringe on the liberties of others. Similar to the whole shouting "fire" in a crowded theater thing. There could be an analogy to be made with abortion but that presupposes you consider a fetus to have the same rights as baby already born, which is not something that everyone agrees with and is part of why the issue is so thorny.


Given all that, though, I would agree that forced vaccinations by the government should generally be avoided. I do wonder why do you keep mentioning that, Jake. Do you think it likely that vaccinations will be forced? I think that's extremely unlikely and not something worth worrying about.

At worst, vaccinations may be required in order to attend certain public and private events. I assume you'd agree private events should be allowed to have that requirement if they want. So really the question is whether the government should be allowed to require vaccination in order to participate in a public gathering (like school). This is where the idea of your freedom not infringing on others freedom is most important. You're free to skip the vaccination but not free to potentially expose other people to a disease because of it.


Anyway, at this point we don't have enough doses to worry about forced vaccination so it's really just a thought experiment. For now we should just be hoping that as many high-risk people get it as possible.

ober

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #366 on: December 19, 2020, 04:19:26 PM »
Quote
It is not up to ME, how YOU handle things that affect YOUR PERSONAL life.  It's none of my business how you decide things like that.  That's why it's called 'pro-CHOICE

So with that said, the vaccine should also be a choice and not a requirement - my body my choice - right?
Yes.... but all the stuff Hans and Charlie said.

Jake

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #367 on: December 20, 2020, 12:18:38 AM »
Quote
Given all that, though, I would agree that forced vaccinations by the government should generally be avoided. I do wonder why do you keep mentioning that, Jake. Do you think it likely that vaccinations will be forced? I think that's extremely unlikely and not something worth worrying about.

I also doubt that these vaccinations will be mandated, but i do think they will be forced be default. For example, you will not be able to enter a court house, or a dmv, or another public building without having proof of vaccination. I think that is plausible in many leftist states.

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I assume you'd agree private events should be allowed to have that requirement if they want.

Indeed. Just like i agree that bakery owners have the right to refuse to bake a wedding cake for a homosexual couple.

Quote
But the issue is if you're an asymptomatic carrier, it's no longer just your body and your choice. You are now potentially putting other people at risk for your choice. Despite the belief of many we don't have unlimited freedoms. We give up some for the better interest of society as a whole. And while I used to be further on the right and believe people can make the decisions own their own, I think this pandemic has clearly shown that people make bad decisions.

It amazes me that I'm even on this side of things. I guess I've changed as I've gotten older and seen that society is irresponsible as a whole.

Yes, but we have to keep everything in perspective. This virus has an over 99% survival rate. It is probably closer to 99.9% if we would take into account a the unreported cases. So how does it differ from the flu, for example?
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charlie

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #368 on: December 20, 2020, 02:00:28 AM »
I also doubt that these vaccinations will be mandated, but i do think they will be forced be default. For example, you will not be able to enter a court house, or a dmv, or another public building without having proof of vaccination. I think that is plausible in many leftist states.
So really the question is whether the government should be allowed to require vaccination in order to participate in a public gathering (like school). This is where the idea of your freedom not infringing on others freedom is most important. You're free to skip the vaccination but not free to potentially expose other people to a disease because of it.


Yes, but we have to keep everything in perspective. This virus has an over 99% survival rate. It is probably closer to 99.9% if we would take into account a the unreported cases. So how does it differ from the flu, for example?

Dude I really worry about your sources of information. Yes, it very much differs from the flu. The flu doesn't kill 300,000 people in a year.

(Jake says, but doctors and coroners put COVID-19 on all the death certificates because reasons, it hasn't actually killed that many people).
Here's deaths from all causes this year compared to previous years. Notice any outlier? This was not a normal year.


(Jake says the deaths were due to the lockdowns, not the disease itself?)
I'm not going to look it all up but there's lots of data that shows this is not the case.



By the way, if it was actually 99.9% survival rate, then note that 0.1% of 328 million is 328,000. As in dead humans. Yes. Let's keep things in perspective.

ober

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #369 on: December 20, 2020, 02:06:53 AM »
Why does it surprise me that you're ok with homosexual discrimination?  I mean I guess it shouldn't based on other things you've said.  I'm just surprised.

If you don't see the difference at this point, with all the evidence, between this virus and the flu, I feel really bad for you.  Many, many public health officials have said why it's different.  For you to continue to say that just kind of blows my mind. 

Flu season (Oct 2019 - Apr 2020): https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm  Deaths = 24-62K deaths
In that same period of time (roughly), the US has seen over 300K deaths due to COVID and that's with us actively trying to prevent the spread.  We don't take any of these measures with the flu.  Imagine what it would look like if we did none of the preventative stuff.  You don't see hospitals overwhelmed and hundreds or thousands of people on ventilators in individual cities with the flu!

How.... how do you not see the difference!?!?

Jake

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #370 on: December 31, 2020, 01:50:25 PM »
Brilliant :D
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ober

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19
« Reply #371 on: January 01, 2021, 12:12:37 PM »
No response to my question?