Author Topic: War is good for politics  (Read 192 times)

micah

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War is good for politics
« on: January 03, 2020, 08:19:09 PM »
So... this is happening
Quote from: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/world/middleeast/iranian-general-qassem-soleimani-killed.html
President Trump said Friday afternoon that the airstrike that killed Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani, the powerful Iranian commander, was ordered “to stop a war” and prevented attacks on Americans.

“Suleimani was plotting imminent and sinister attacks on American diplomats and military personnel, but we caught him in the act and terminated him,” he said, speaking to reporters from his resort in West Palm Beach, Fla. “We took action last night to stop a war, we did not take action to start a war.”

Mr. Trump said the United States is not seeking regime change in Iran, but called for Tehran’s “aggression in the region” to immediately end. He also warned Iran against retaliating, saying, “If Americans anywhere are threatened, we have all of those targets already fully identified, and I am ready and prepared to take whatever action is necessary.”

He added, “that in particular refers to Iran.”

The airstrike directed by Mr. Trump dramatically ratcheted up tensions between Washington and Tehran, and Iran’s leaders quickly promised retaliation for the general’s killing.

Thoughts?
My girlfriend's son is in the Army reserves and she's worrying that he's going to get deployed. 
Seems like most people are split along party lines on this.  Democrats are like, "WTF Trump?!" and Republican's are like, "Fuck that guy, he had it coming! Trump 2020!"
I'm kinda in the middle. I 100% agree with military action that stops assholes from killing innocent people but at the same time... like... we kinda poked a bear in the eye.
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jkim

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Re: War is good for politics
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2020, 09:09:49 PM »
My brother's in the reserves and in the middle of December signed on to deploy with a troop to the Middle East for a year+

This fucking sucks.
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micah

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Re: War is good for politics
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2020, 09:36:14 PM »
My brother's in the reserves and in the middle of December signed on to deploy with a troop to the Middle East for a year+

scary.  That must be so nerve racking for your whole family.  Like, obviously, I'm one of those over the top patriotic types who thinks it awesome that people like your brother signed up to do such a dangerous job and I'm sure you are proud of him...but on the other hand.. geez, that is so sucky that anyone ever has to be in that position. 

I had no idea you had family in the military (or family at all...you should post more. LOL)  maybe keep us posted on how he's doing every once in  a while?
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Mike

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Re: War is good for politics
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2020, 11:31:00 PM »
I think we shouldn't celebrate the death of another person - regardless of how deserving they may be.

I don't know much about the guy to say if it was warranted.  It does seem like a bad idea to kill a government official in such a blatant way in their own country.  This seems like one of those times where you'd have some more stealth and deny any involvement (even though everyone knows it was you).

I think there are two major concerns:

1) It appears he didn't inform congress before the attack.  I believe he is legally required to do so and that this is at least the second time he has defied that law.
2) He dealt with it in the most Trumpy of ways.

Quote
Like, obviously, I'm one of those over the top patriotic types who thinks it awesome that people like your brother signed up

I say this with lots of love: Fuck your patriotism.  This type of patriotism is one of the worst thing about American culture.  The military isn't some fucking sports team that you get to cheer on and pretend you are a part of.

That was a bit more aggressive than I started with.  I just see it all the time.  People will wave their stupid little flag, or put giant ones in the bed of their pickup truck, say how much they respect the military and think nothing about the lives destroyed on both sides.

micah

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Re: War is good for politics
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2020, 10:56:57 AM »
Despite your apologetic approach to saying it, that was a little harsh. I don't think there is anything wrong with patriotism or national pride...and that goes for everyone in every country.  If you like where you're from, then celebrate it and have some pride.  I also take issue with your sports team analogy; appreciating service members is about respect. Whether they signed up because it was their only realistic option out of high school or because they have a deep sense of patriotism and justice, either way, they've got balls (or the female equivalent) to join up.  Rooting for them to "win" is nothing like cheering for a sports team because the stakes of war are real.  And the line about thinking nothing about the lives destroyed was a low dig - had you quoted more than my qualifying first sentence, you'd note that the point I was making was that its sucks that we have to have military action at all.  The intent that I apparently didn't convey, was based solely on the fact that war means tragedy on both sides.  It should be avoided, but sometimes it can't be.
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Mike

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Re: War is good for politics
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2020, 12:45:37 PM »
I stand by the statement.  This type of patriotism is one of the worst things about American culture as it ties so strongly with military power.  If you challenge the use of the military or how much we spend on it then you aren't patriotic and hate your country.  I know because that is what I grew up with.  Hell, it was one of the reasons I joined the Marines.

We should view every combat encounter and life lost (regardless of side) as a failure.  Sometimes we will have no choice but it should be a failure.

micah

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Re: War is good for politics
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2020, 02:32:54 PM »
I feel like I agree with what you're saying so I don't want to argue... but at the same time, I still 100% support military action when necessary and have 100% respect for our service members.  And it's not like I'm going to root against my own country so...  :dunno:   can we both be right?  Like war is bad but, since it happens, we should be really good at it?
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ober

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Re: War is good for politics
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2020, 09:32:18 PM »
I'd like more information than the BS Trump is spouting about this.  I don't trust him.  This seems like a very Trump-like action to take.  I fear the future back and forth retaliation.

jkim

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Re: War is good for politics
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2020, 11:05:05 PM »
people like your brother signed up to do such a dangerous job and I'm sure you are proud of him

I am very proud of him. This unit (not his home unit) was set to go over a year ago and he wanted to go *somewhere* overseas before his time was up so he was able to jump on with them last minute.

The fact of the matter is that people join the military for a large number of reasons and "going to war to beat the baddies" is not always going to be on their list. It's very rarely the rich politicians who suffer from their decisions to play pew pew in the sand.

Also, I'm pretty sure I've mentioned my brother when he was activated for other disasters, regarding his own delayed development, and in passing during other conversations.
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