Author Topic: Time to take the temperature down  (Read 623 times)

ober

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Time to take the temperature down
« on: December 04, 2020, 12:07:40 AM »
I'm really done with the five year old mentality between a few members so I'm taking action against it.


1) Mike has been demoted and given a 3 day ban.  He needs to cool the fuck down.  The instant attacks to most of what Jake says is uncalled for.  I'm sick of seeing it and I'm not going to let it continue.
2) Jake has asked for his account to be deleted for a second time.  I'm giving him 3 days to reconsider and then I will follow through.


This place used to be somewhere we could have discussions, agree, disagree, have fun.  I don't like what it's becoming.  I hate the politics thread.  It does nothing but divide us.  We are better than this.

Mike

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Re: Time to take the temperature down
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2020, 08:24:10 AM »
1) Mike has been demoted and given a 3 day ban.  He needs to cool the fuck down.  The instant attacks to most of what Jake says is uncalled for.  I'm sick of seeing it and I'm not going to let it continue.
You actually promoted me back to admin.  I removed my admin status when I banned myself in September.  I'll correct that.

I would like to point out that you have again sided with the hate posting troll.  What does that say about you?

ober

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Re: Time to take the temperature down
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2020, 12:09:46 PM »
That's what I hate about the user levels in here... they're so unclear lol.

I did not 'side' with Jake.  I clearly have said multiple times that there are things that I don't agree with in what he posts.  But there's a difference between me disagreeing and attacking him.  Your comments to him are so toxic and you aren't winning him over to your thinking.  You're just shouting and making him more upset and more entrenched in his thinking.  Every time you scream about how Republicans suck and everything he says is bigotry makes him want to dig in his heels further and lock in the 'liberal' stereotype.  Are you unable to see that?

Like I said in the first comment in this thread, we used to be able to have discussions, and now we just scream at each other.  I don't care how off base you think someone is, that doesn't give you a right to spew and scream like a child every time someone talks.

And yes, I'll admit that Jake tends to dodge questions at times and post videos without comment quite a bit and that's frustrating.  It's certainly a 2-way street.  I guess I'm just asking everyone to take a step back.  If we go back to something Micah said a while ago, at the core, we mostly all want the same things!  And we're getting wildly bent out of shape about the differences.  What happened to 'agree to disagree'? 

I also agree that it would be a more level playing field if Jake would be straight with us and stop baiting people.  I think part of it is a game to him, similar to what I've heard other Republicans say about what Trump has been doing.  'He's not serious'... 'He obviously wasn't suggesting that'.  But we're in such a contentious state right now that people take everything so seriously and look to use it as ammo.

Am I the only one seeing this?

micah

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Re: Time to take the temperature down
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2020, 08:05:56 PM »
That's what I hate about the user levels in here... they're so unclear lol.

I did not 'side' with Jake.  I clearly have said multiple times that there are things that I don't agree with in what he posts.  But there's a difference between me disagreeing and attacking him.  Your comments to him are so toxic and you aren't winning him over to your thinking.  You're just shouting and making him more upset and more entrenched in his thinking.  Every time you scream about how Republicans suck and everything he says is bigotry makes him want to dig in his heels further and lock in the 'liberal' stereotype.  Are you unable to see that?

Like I said in the first comment in this thread, we used to be able to have discussions, and now we just scream at each other.  I don't care how off base you think someone is, that doesn't give you a right to spew and scream like a child every time someone talks.

And yes, I'll admit that Jake tends to dodge questions at times and post videos without comment quite a bit and that's frustrating.  It's certainly a 2-way street.  I guess I'm just asking everyone to take a step back.  If we go back to something Micah said a while ago, at the core, we mostly all want the same things!  And we're getting wildly bent out of shape about the differences.  What happened to 'agree to disagree'? 

I also agree that it would be a more level playing field if Jake would be straight with us and stop baiting people.  I think part of it is a game to him, similar to what I've heard other Republicans say about what Trump has been doing.  'He's not serious'... 'He obviously wasn't suggesting that'.  But we're in such a contentious state right now that people take everything so seriously and look to use it as ammo.

Am I the only one seeing this?

Well said!
I already commented in the other thread before I saw this one.  You are so right, the more we argue, the more we become entrenched in our beliefs and the more we see the opposing person as fitting all the stereotypes we have.
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charlie

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Re: Time to take the temperature down
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2020, 08:18:49 PM »
To me, it's clear Jake is trolling, being coy about what he really believes, intentionally dodging discussion, posting "provocative" things but not engaging. He's is not here to have a serious discussion. That's his prerogative, of course. He's not required to have real discussions on these issues. But his style of posting does cause disharmony on a forum.

Mike is responding to Jake with I guess somewhat harsh words. (Honestly I don't know why you'd give him a 3 day suspension. Was it for "grow the fuck up"?) Certainly harsh responses can also cause disharmony on a forum.


From my point of view Jake's behavior is much worse for forum harmony. He is "starting it" so to speak. He's also a big boy and should be able to handle getting harsh responses that he's clearly looking for. I mean, Jake has joked about people being snowflakes so he should be able to handle a "grow the fuck up" once in a while. (Side note: who asks for their account to be deleted... if you're going to leave for the good of the community man up, give an explanation and just leave.) Point is I can't say that I agree with your assessment here, ober, at least in regards to forum behavior.


I like this community. I'd like it to stick around even with dwindling numbers. We all have to decide whether it's worth it for us or not. If Mike thinks Jake should leave or be banned because of his behavior he should say so and it should be decided. If Jake stays after that and it makes this a place Mike doesn't want to be, then Mike and anybody else is free to leave. I don't see why it's so hard.

By the same token, suspending people seems silly. We're not 20 years old anymore. If you have a problem with Mike's responses to Jake, then you say so. If you think those deserve consequences, you make it clear ahead of time what those should be and (although it's not my forum so maybe it's not my place to say) it feels like we should all have a say on those consequences. There's literally 8 of us and we're all moderators. Why is anybody getting suspended, let alone for replying to posts looking for attention?

ober

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Re: Time to take the temperature down
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2020, 12:15:34 PM »
I gave Mike the suspension because most of what he posts is just blatant anger lately.  I'm tired of it.  It's so negative.  It wasn't one thing he said.  It's a collection of things.  It's vicious and angry words, not just disagreeing or trying to get someone to see your viewpoint.  That's a massive difference.  And I figured I'd either screw up the ban or do something else and it would be pointless anyway.  I was more just trying to send a message.  Mike could have contacted me directly and asked to be back in and I would have done it immediately.

While Jake posts stuff (or doesn't respond) that seems to really get under your skin and Mike's, he rarely goes on the attack unless you consider the inaction or lack of commentary an 'attack' directly against someone.  I never said what Jake is doing is not sowing entropy though.

Your suggestion that I haven't said anything about Mike's comments is flatly wrong.  I've made comments directly several times already.  In a few threads.  If you'd like me to dig them up, I'd be happy to do so.  You are right that this is 'our' community.  We've basically grown up together.  I'm happy to hear anyone out.

You talk about us all being 'adults' yet I haven't exactly seen a lot of that behavior lately. 

charlie

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Re: Time to take the temperature down
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2020, 04:01:26 PM »
I gave Mike the suspension because most of what he posts is just blatant anger lately.  I'm tired of it.  It's so negative.  It wasn't one thing he said.  It's a collection of things.  It's vicious and angry words, not just disagreeing or trying to get someone to see your viewpoint.  That's a massive difference.  And I figured I'd either screw up the ban or do something else and it would be pointless anyway.  I was more just trying to send a message.  Mike could have contacted me directly and asked to be back in and I would have done it immediately.

That wasn't my impression so I looked at all Mike's recent posts and I really don't see that at all. Maybe take a look and see if your impressions were off? I mean, other than "stop this trolling bullshit" he hasn't made any post that even remotely looks like an attack since August after Jake made his "fucking animals" post. And even then he tried to quell the issue and really only ever attacked you.


As far as sending messages, we have PMs for that. I guess when you've made comments directly to Mike, I assumed they were coming as a fellow member, not as someone trying to moderate the discussion. So if it was clear you were moderating and he didn't listen, then fine I guess a suspension makes sense (although again that assumes he actually did something wrong which I haven't seen).


that seems to really get under your skin

Just to clarify, not that it really matters, but I wouldn't say Jake gets under my skin at all. Disagreement and motivation to reply don't mean I'm bothered.

charlie

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Re: Time to take the temperature down
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2020, 04:02:11 PM »
You talk about us all being 'adults' yet I haven't exactly seen a lot of that behavior lately. 

We've been talking about headphones and election night and COVID and github and everything seems to go well until Jake makes a racist an inflammatory post. If you don't want the fighting, ask him to stop making those posts. Seems pretty simple to me.




Edit: Changed wording a bit here.. was being kinda flippant at first but figured that probably distracted from the point.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 02:27:18 PM by charlie »

Jake

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Re: Time to take the temperature down
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2020, 02:09:20 AM »
eh, if Mike considers coming back as long as I leave, I'm good with that. Looks like overall attitude is leaning that way, so be it. Has anyone been able to get in touch with him?
Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

ober

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Re: Time to take the temperature down
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2020, 08:37:43 AM »
I emailed with him.  He's got a lot of life stress and said he's going to take a week or 2 to decide what he does.

Betazep

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Re: Time to take the temperature down
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2021, 02:45:42 AM »
Is there common ground anymore?  Or is it all lost in the politics of the day?
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ober

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Re: Time to take the temperature down
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2021, 08:32:20 AM »
Look who the cat dragged in?!  This all comes down to politics.  I think, outside of that, we all still have things in common.

micah

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Re: Time to take the temperature down
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2021, 11:03:16 PM »
for what its worth, I've decided that, the older I get, the less I give a shit about politics.
I know that seems backwards, right? there's an old adage that young people are democrats until they grow up and get jobs and pay taxes then become conservatives.
But honestly, I spent my youth fighting for what I thought was the american dream...now that I'm in my 40's and I see the limitations of the systems I had such hopes for... I say fuck it.  I know where I stand. I know where I've been and the potential I have left.  Everything else is just gravy.  Fuck it, I don't care.
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Betazep

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Re: Time to take the temperature down
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2021, 09:36:06 AM »
I gotta tell you... as a US veteran and a patriot... US politics certainly softens when you live someplace else in the world.  When we get down to it, our individual lives are mostly about what we do day-to-day.  It is about family and friends and local connections.  It is about cherishing the little time we have left.  How easy it is to forget you are an individual.  How easy it is to align with the collective - the group - the tribe.

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ober

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Re: Time to take the temperature down
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2021, 12:13:39 PM »
True words, beta.  I swear the media whips it all up into a frenzy and people divide into different camps.